UNC..the Good and the Bad

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of North Carolina - Chapel Hill
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<p>Southpoint is pretty decent, but nothing compared to The Galleria (in Houston). The bus from campus gets to Soutpoint in about 15 minutes.</p>

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<p>Ok Well The Galleria Is Like The Best Mall In The Country So It Doesnt Count!</p>

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<p>I Stayed In A Hotel There For A Weekend And My Life Was Complete!</p>

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<p>hahah, I love this debate. I really like Southpoint! I go there every few weeks. I just wrapped up most of my Christmas shopping there yesterday.</p>

<p>I'd say UVA and UNC are definitely more similar than UNC and Duke. I've met a lot of people here who had to decide between UVA and UNC, and I'm sure that there are near the same amount of people at UVA who applied here. I personally never visited, just because I felt like if I was going to go to a state school, I should go to the one in my own state (I didn't want to pay more for an equal education).</p>

<p>Asking why people would spend more money to go to Duke rather than Carolina is kind of a weird question to me, and I tried to figure out why exactly it made me feel weird. I think it's just that the two aren't that comparable. They just have different atmospheres. Even though Duke is fifteen minutes away, it feels like another world to me because of its architecture and smaller size. There isn't anything objectively negative about that - it's just that it seems to me like if Carolina is to your tastes, Duke probably wouldn't be, and vise versa. Some people look at Duke's smaller size and associate it with intimacy, while others could find it socially limiting. You could look at UNC's larger size and find it overwhelming or invigorating. Plenty of people will disagree with me, but I just think that the two are in totally different categories and can't really be compared in terms of social activities, etc.</p>

<p>For my junior and senior year of high school, I went to Guilford College. It's a small liberal arts school in Greensboro, NC. It definitely isn't on par with Duke academically, though some of its departments are very strong (Chemisty and Physics come to mind). It has around 2,500 students. When I came to UNC, I was used to calling all my professors by their first names, being in classes with anywhere from five to twenty people (but rarely any higher), and seeing the same faces around all the time. I expected that at UNC I wouldn't know my professors too well without me making an effort, and that it would be next to impossible to get into small classes my freshman year. I thought that I'd probably feel like a foreigner sometimes because everywhere I'd go there'd be so many people I wouldn't know. I was excited to come here, for sure, but still recognized that I was spoiled to the small school atmosphere.</p>

<p>I was actually pretty surprised. I'm taking four classes - Econ 101, FYS: Reverberations, Chinese 101, and an upper level Philosophy class. My largest class is Econ, and it has about 32 students. Granted, it's an honors section, but I was originally in the regular section and asked Byrns (the prof) if I could move to his honors section. I didn't state that I was an honors student, but he told me he wouldn't mind me switching at all. All my other classes are either ten or twenty students, and all my professors know not only my name, but my personality.</p>

<p>Every time I go outside I see someone I know. Somehow I feel that the freshman class is just 300 students, but I do keep meeting new people through my friends every day - and I know that that won't end until I graduate. My brother, who's a senior, tells me that he still meets new people in his class. I love that.</p>

<p>What helped me realize that UNC's social scene wouldn't be scary, but actually exciting, was a quote I heard on another campus tour. "You can make a big school smaller, but you can't make a small school larger." I've found that to be true. Guilford shrank over the two years that I was there until I felt like nothing was a novelty anymore. UNC has gotten smaller because I've made a core group of friends, but through my classes and extracurriculars I can open up new channels for social things whenever I want to. For some people, like my best friend, a small school is best - there's a comfort to it, and you're forced to get to know the people around you better, which leads you to unexpected friendships (that's what she's told me, at least), whereas here I feel like I have more control over the people I'm around.</p>

<p>Just my two cents, and as always, I'm not offended if someone else has a different experience or perception than I do.</p>

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<p>cloying,
i've read various posts you've contributed, and i've enjoyed them.
my son's a legacy applying to UNC.
since it's one of a group of his schools, we've compared a number of the to UNC.
you touch on one area i was talking about yesterday with my bf, whose son is a junior in the honors program at unc. in comparison to the honors program at UGA (we live in georgia), unc does not distinguish itself. i can't speak to the program at UVA, but UGA offers honors kids a an educational environment that is amazing. in the other hand, UNC's overall offerings are more impressive.
we have a lot of family in greensboro, and most of the cousins went to unc. they graduated already.</p>

<p>do you know must about OOS kids? any legacy OOS kids? any who were admitted EA? my S just retook the SAT yesterday, but as of now, he has a 680 math, 600 cr. he's second in rank in his class, and he's taking the toughest classes and worked pt since grade 10?
any info you can gleam would be great.
thanks</p>

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<p>Cloying, I really enjoyed your post. UNC is my first choice! I want to visit again because I simply fell in love when I visited last spring. My mom graduated from UNC and loves the idea of me going there. Anyway thanks for your post.
P.S. I got a likely letter (hopefully will be at UNC next fall)</p>

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<p>shebear - two things. I'm from Greensboro! second - one of my best friends is OOS from Georgia. She was telling me the other day that UGA's honor's program is fantastic, but she compared it to ours. I'm totally ignorant of it though, so I don't know which is better. I can say that I've loved the honors program here so far because of the small class sizes and accessibility it gives you to a lot of professors, but am hesitant to speak too much to it because it's pretty selective and I don't want people to think that those who aren't placed in it originally aren't in for a good experience, either. I'd still be happy here if I weren't in the honors program.</p>

<p>My friend was second in her class at a private school in Georgia, and her brother just graduated from UNC (so I guess would be considered a legacy). I don't know the specifics of what she did in high school, but is a Morehead so I'll assume she was kicking butt and taking names the four years before she came here. :) Other than that, my general impression is that statistics come secondary to one's activities in high school. It's not that the SAT is irrelevant, it's just that it won't necessarily make or break you. I have said this a million times, but I think that strong essays and leadership experiences are what get people into Carolina. And, as I have also said a million times, I am not an admissions official, so this is all speculation.</p>

<p>cs08 - congrats on your likely letter! Unless something goes horribly wrong I wouldn't feel worried about the news that'll come to you in a few months. You should definitely visit every opportunity you get!</p>

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<p>Cloying, your post up there was very well put. I have the same opinion as you in regards to UNC vs. Duke. Half of the schools I am applying to this year are in North Carolina, but Duke is not one of them. I've been joking that because UNC is my first choice, it would be a conflict of interest for me to apply to Duke, but it doesn't really have anything to do with the rivalry or whatever. :] I, too, feel that they are completely different, and pretty much incomparable. Granted, the only time I visited Duke was in the 8th grade, but even back then, I totally fell for UNC, and was not attracted to Duke. They have different atmospheres entirely. And beyond that, there is everything you covered, like the disparities in size. I've been thinking about it nonstop lately, and UNC is just so perfect for me. It has everything I want. And while Duke is definitely equal in quality in education - well, Duke isn't LESSER in anything, I don't mean to say that. But Duke IS totally different. </p>

<p>UNC & UVA, however, I think are pretty similar.</p>

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<p>What other differences between Duke and UNC, other than size, seem to justify the huge difference in cost for the average top notch student?</p>

<p>How would you compare the education, social culture, quality of student, networking etc.? It seems that you're both suggesting that the cultures are very different.</p>

<p>My son applied to both but he has yet to visit either. We're planning a trip to NC in January and intend to visit both. In my gut I feel that UNC is a better fit for him but not knowing that much about either I could be all wrong.</p>

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<p>hebear - two things. I'm from Greensboro! second - one of my best friends is OOS from Georgia. She was telling me the other day that UGA's honor's program is fantastic, but she compared it to ours. I'm totally ignorant of it though, so I don't know which is better. I can say that I've loved the honors program here so far because of the small class sizes and accessibility it gives you to a lot of professors, but am hesitant to speak too much to it because it's pretty selective and I don't want people to think that those who aren't placed in it originally aren't in for a good experience, either. I'd still be happy here if I weren't in the honors program.</p>

<p>My friend was second in her class at a private school in Georgia, and her brother just graduated from UNC (so I guess would be considered a legacy). I don't know the specifics of what she did in high school, but is a Morehead so I'll assume she was kicking butt and taking names the four years before she came here. Other than that, my general impression is that statistics come secondary to one's activities in high school. It's not that the SAT is irrelevant, it's just that it won't necessarily make or break you. I have said this a million times, but I think that strong essays and leadership experiences are what get people into Carolina. And, as I have also said a million times, I am not an admissions official, so this is all speculation.</p>

<p>Cloying, your taking the time to respond means a lot. i suppose a morehead girl is not the average--by far. did she say how unc's honors is in comparison to UNCs?
my son would only get in collegiately to either. UGA requires about a 1400 for consideration. maybe he'll do some crazy improving on this past SAT.
thanks</p>

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<h2>"To be blunt, the average Duke student is smarter than the average Carolina student."</h2>

<p>warbler - good thing you qualified that by stating that the top students are identical in capability. And I'd like to reiterate comparing the two is like comparing apples and oranges, yet it's something Duke students seem to love to do. Duke is small, private and has no legislation governing admissions; UNC is a medium, not huge, public university required to admit a certain percentage of in-state students. (UT-Austin is huge; UNC is not.) </p>

<p>Also, I certainly would not use the word 'handicapped' when referring to the in-state population. MANY in-state kids who are accepted to Duke and UNC, choose UNC for financial reasons.</p>

<p>And that being said, there is all kinds of 'smart'...lol! In my opinion judging 'smart' from an average SAT score, is well...not so smart. My d tells me that she visited Duke expecting to see a campus full of geniuses, but sadly, it's just seemed like a school full of fairly bright kids who were declined at HYPS.</p>

<p>I think the safest thing to do is leave it at the statement UNC has an equal number of elite students as Duke. And.....they have the #1 AP-ranked basketball team in the nation. :D</p>

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<p>ldmom makes a good point concerning finances. From what I can tell, the difference in total cost for an instate student (if paying full freight for 4 years-- at either school) would be about $120,000. UNC also has a really good financial aid program and seems to offer many more merit-based scholarships than Duke does. UNC is an outstanding university-- academically and otherwise-- and students/families have to really believe that a Duke education is worth that extra money ($120,000 extra for instate). </p>

<p>Warblersrule answered this question on the Duke thread when somebody asked about Chapel Hill. Here's how he answered over there:</p>

<p>
[quote]
Chapel Hill has some amazing courses and professors, and Duke students would do well to take advantage of them. The Robertson bus runs every 30 minutes, and it's incredibly easy to head over to Chapel Hill for class, the libraries, the Ackland Museum, etc.</p>

<p>I've taken Hittite, Near Eastern Archaeology, and Invertebrate Paleontology at UNC and plan to take Luwian next fall. I also chose to take Biological Oceanography at Chapel Hill because I didn't want to spend a semester at the Duke marine lab.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>So, UNC can and does offer a broader range of more (and more unusual?) courses, it seems, too.</p>

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<p>

Assuming that a person would be paying full freight at both, not much. As much as I hate to use it as an example, even USNWR supports that. In its ranking of best</a> college values, Duke and UNC are back to back.</p>

<p>The two universities are actually pretty close academically. They started joint programs in PPE and Classical Archaeology last year, and a joint German major is supposedly in the works.

[quote]
We're planning a trip to NC in January and intend to visit both.

[/quote]

Be sure to visit East Campus when you visit Duke. It's where the freshmen live, but for some reason Duke doesn't have it on the tour.</p>

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<p>I picked Duke for the size, campus atmosphere, and student body. That said, I absolutely LOVE UNC, visit there all the time, and have tons of great friends there. Most of my friends at UNC love it. I would never be heard saying "UNC sucks"...but at the same time, I would also never go there. Duke academics are way superior (smaller classes, smarter classmates, better teachers, an engineering school, etc.) UNC is by no means "dumb" but it isn't Duke, no matter what the rankings say. There's a reason UNC has an honors program and Duke doesn't need one...because Duke students are all so ****ing brilliant.</p>

<p>Plus, I love our social scene. It's much more open than UNC's (here, anyone and everyone can go to a party and have a good time, but at UNC, Greek life is much more exclusive. It's harder to have a good social life at UNC than it is at Duke. I party at UNC quite a bit but it's significantly harder to find a place to go. My UNC friends are always in awe when they come here and see how friendly and open everyone is.) The experience here is just so unique. I also love the fact that you don't have to walk 30 minutes to get anywhere from a freshman dorm, like you do at UNC. My friends at UNC routinely walk a mile or more to get to classes. People at Duke complain about the 5-10 minute walk to Science Drive! The bus system here is so much more convenient. I am so glad I picked Duke. UNC would have cost me $43,000 less (one great thing about UNC is that they give out tons of scholarships), but the more time I spend there, the luckier I feel that I am able to afford Duke.</p>

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<p>Thanks Dukie! That's very useful insight and nitty-gritty info. My one friend who went to Duke hated it. But she simply felt that she was in way over her head academically. She ended up transferring out to a less demanding program.</p>

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<p>I don't like frat parties and I have no problem with the social scene at UNC. Frats are too 2D for my tastes. There's always Yeats and Vespa on Franklin Street (I love dancing with my friends, and they usually have a DJ or live band), and themed house parties are almost always going on. Those are crazy fun - people get really into them. I have never found it difficult to have fun or find friendly people to hang out with on the weekends. Greek life can afford to be exclusive here because there are so many other options for parties that people can go to. In other words, Greek life is exclusive here because it's not our only source of social interaction.</p>

<p>When I read "There's a reason UNC has an honors program and Duke doesn't need one...because Duke students are so ****ing brilliant" I thought you were joking or a troll. But I guess not. Doesn't Duke have certain merit based programs? I seem to remember that they have some kind of scholarship day, different types of prestigious scholars, things like that. ... Which sounds eerily similar to an honors program. Whatever it is, it distinguishes some students from others. Yale has a program for kids who took a certain number of APs in high school that puts them on an accelerated curriculum - I read about it a few years ago - I would think of that as an honors program.</p>

<p>Duke students are not all, as you so flippantly put it, ****ing brilliant. Knowing some of the kids they've accepted from my high school and a few trips on the Robertson bus on Saturday mornings have both taught me that much. Neither are Harvard students, or Dartmouth students, or Carolina students, or Cal students. Somehow, idiots are everywhere. I'm not saying that there are more Duke idiots than Harvard or Carolina idiots.</p>

<p>Duke classes overall are probably smaller. But barely five percent of our classes have over one hundred students.</p>

<p>Smarter classmates - this is a complex issue. Clearly, because we're a bit larger and are a state school, so yes, we will admit kids that Duke won't. But does this mean that an overwhelming amount of underqualified students will apply to Carolina? Not necessarily. Carolina attracts the top students from all over North Carolina. Most of the kids I've met here were at or near the top of their classes and had a serious commitment in high school. Anyway, I'm sure Duke students probably did better on standardized tests than we did. But in a broad sense the two are comparable. Heck, we just beat Duke, State, and someone else (I can't remember) in an academic competition. Details forthcoming because I can't remember the name! And I don't hear anyone screaming about it. I, and I think a lot of people who are knowledgeable of both schools, just don't think that Duke is academically/intellectually superior. They're comparable. The fact that we may have some more students who aren't as into their studies is irrelevant, because they're the same students who aren't going to be really influencing academic life. The kids in my classes speak up, do the reading, and always have interesting things to say. I'm sure it's the same at Duke.</p>

<p>I have more to say, but I don't think it'd be productive because I'll start getting negative. I just really urge people interested in the two schools to visit both as much as they can. Listen to the things you hear, really listen, talk to the students at both campuses, and look at their faces. Do this on all your visits, actually. Are they smiling?</p>

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<p>

Not exactly. UNC has some courses designated for honors students; Duke doesn't.</p>

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<p>Something I've noticed about UNC, and which I think holds true, is that the students are pretty laid back. I don't mean unambitious, because they are all incredible students. I mean that they aren't scary competitive. No one will run over to your laptop and delete files (I've heard horror stories about that from certain Ivy League schools), there isn't a constant drive to be better than everyone else, and there are not unhealthy amounts of stress over schoolwork. The "work hard, play hard" attitude is a big draw. Students at UNC have a good time and know how to balance their studies with recreation. I haven't looked into Duke much so I don't know if the same goes there, but if all the kids are "****ing brilliant" then I would probably find myself feeling a little uncomfortable and inadequate at times, and that is not an insult to myself. I just really love the general attitude of UNC students towards academics - at least from what I've heard.</p>

<p>Furthermore, I understand the point that is being made in regards to Duke not having an honors program - that being that they will not accept some people who Carolina might accept. But I really think Carolina's honors program is a great thing. UNC is a top school even without considering the honors program, so for students who are accepted to the honors program, that is just an extra way to distinguish themselves on their resumes. A UNC honors student is truly the best of the best!</p>

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<p>To be fair, the UNC honors program isn't really like other, more traditional, honors programs offered elsewhere. It's much more inclusive. Those who aren't chosen for honors as freshmen can apply and join later, but there's no separate housing for honors students, no early registration, no separate curriculum. It's a great program, offering rigorous small seminar style classes across a broad range of topics/departments, and really very accessible to all UNC students.</p>

<p>Duke actually does have something sort of like an honors program (actually, in some ways, more like a traditional honors program than UNC's), and it's called FOCUS. While it's different in certain aspects (interdisciplinary and involves some level of outside community involvement), students do have to apply, and a relatively small number are accepted; small seminars are offered, which are probably more rigorous than the regular courses(?), and there's even separate housing for those students chosen to participate. So, some would say that Duke's equivalent offering of an honors program might actually be the FOCUS program.</p>

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<p>avantgarden is right about UNC students being way more laid-back. Duke's academic atmosphere could really benefit from some of that, but I think that's the price you pay for the intellectual environment. It's a tradeoff.</p>

<p>I don't mean to label UNC students as dumb. Honestly, I sometimes prefer them to Duke students, who can be incredibly petty and obsessed with popularity (it's easier to avoid this stuff at a larger school like UNC. Sometimes Duke's seems like a high school social scene.) But that said, I just don't think a smarter student would thrive at UNC the way he/she would at Duke. For example, Duke gives a lot of money out to any undergraduate to do research, study or do work abroad, and participate in extracurricular activities--the sorts of things that the best students thrive on. That level of opportunity and personal attention/support is just not there at UNC. I'd like to hear about an analog to Duke Engage at UNC--one that extends beyond Moreheads and honors students. UNC simply couldn't support that, while Duke is able to promise thousands of dollars to every single student for at least one undergraduate summer. And Duke even has a program to support students in their endeavors/projects for a year after they graduate. The fact that these opportunities are widely available at Duke, to every single student willing to try for them, makes Duke a much different school than UNC. If everyone around you is smart, high-achieving, and encouraged to innovate, you're going to develop into a different person than if you are the most high-achieving person you know. To me, the former is a better way to grow, and it's Duke.</p>