UNC..the Good and the Bad

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of North Carolina - Chapel Hill
41

<p>UNC has an endowment of $1.68 billion. They are hardly limited financially, and I wouldn't say that they are at all crippled in providing a phenomenal level of opportunity. They don't have as much as Duke, but hey it's a public school and a better value. I know that financial aid at UNC carries over to study abroad programs, just as it does at Duke. There are also study abroad scholarships offered at UNC, just as there are at Duke.</p>

<p>But anyway, I'm going to go ahead and label myself a "smarter student."</p>

<p>"avantgarden is right about UNC students being way more laid-back."
And that is exactly why I would thrive at UNC, probably more so than at Duke.</p>

<p>I think 'thriving' depends on your personal happiness, and I'm sure that that differs for all individuals. I see myself being happy and thriving at UNC.</p>

42

<p>
[quote]
I'd like to hear about an analog to Duke Engage at UNC--one that extends beyond Moreheads and honors students. UNC simply couldn't support that, while Duke is able to promise thousands of dollars to every single student for at least one undergraduate summer.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>DukeEngage is a great program, but won't start until summer 2008.</p>

<p>How about the UNC Burch Fellows Program, which has been going on since 1993, and which is open to any undergraduate with a 3.0 GPA-- not simply limited to Moreheads and honors students--(which might possibly amount to more students, overall, than the entire undergrad population at Duke)-- and "will provide $6,000 to support self-designed off-campus experiences . . . "</p>

43

<p>The superior attitude displayed by dukie11 is exactly the reason that many people who could have attended Duke chose not to.</p>

<p>If you know anything about statistics when you compare the sheer number of freshman at UNC versus Duke then compare things like average SATs it becomes clear that in order to attain the average SAT score at UNC, there has to be an almost, if not equal number of those scoring the same at UNC as Duke students ...the size and diversity of the class is what drives the "average" down. That said there are as many bright kids in a class at UNC as there are at Duke...they just don't have the same need to brag about it, are far more interested in cooperation than competition and certainly their being "laid back" relates only to the way they approach each other. </p>

<p>As cloying said...."look at their faces...." there is a difference..at UNC they ARE smiling.</p>

44

<p>Yeah I definitely wouldn't dispute eadad's point that UNC students are on the whole happier.</p>

45

<p>All right, Dukie. I've tried to play nice.</p>

<p>"Duke's academic atmosphere could really benefit from some of that, but I think that's the price you pay for the intellectual environment."</p>

<p>Wow. Maybe one day us UNC students will figure out that in order to have an intellectual environment, you have to cut down other schools. I mean. Here I thought that an intellectual environment meant going out to dinner with friends and talking about what we learned in class that day, and adding in our own inputs and perspectives from the other classes we've been taking. Apparently there's some hidden ingredient in there that I'm missing. I guess that because my SAT score was just a 1400 I'm not capable of thinking deeply about ethics and hard sciences. Or not as deeply as you can, certainly. If only the students at the bottom of the barrel at UNC had spent a few extra hours studying for their SATs so we could compare them intellectually on this forum. Because those extra hundred points would insinuate that they can really sit down and digest a poem properly, and thus add to the intellectual atmosphere of our school.</p>

<p>Or are you talking about something other than SAT scores? I'm not one to call a group of students intellectually inferior without giving some sort of context, some unit of measurement, for their inferiority.</p>

<p>Every year UNC gives out something like sixty scholarships to aid students doing research that they'd like to pursue - mind you, this is self motivated research, not just a program. And as a large university, professors are constantly doing research that they need help with from their undergrads. Our study abroad programs are so inexpensive that for out of state students the semesters can actually work out to be less expensive than regular tuition - so why would as many scholarships be necessary? We've got the Burch Fellows, the speakers that come in through the Moreheads, Robertsons, and Carolina Scholars are available to everyone through the university. For service initiatives, don't even get me started. We've got tons and tons of opportunities through the APPLES service learning program (which includes courses), the huge organization that is the Campus Y (if you don't find a service project you want to do with them, go ahead and create your own!), over four hundred active clubs, etc, etc.</p>

<p>What do you want to do? You can do it. Example:</p>

<p>I want to take DJing as a class next semester. It would be similar to a one credit violin course. So I talked to my prof, who is talking to his professor friends/committee chairs. And they love the idea. We're just figuring out who exactly will pay (and that's just a procedural step rather than an economic problem) and then it'll pull through. I have not yet, I repeat, have not yet heard of anyone being limited by what UNC offers us - no lack of study abroad programs, extracurriculars, learning resources, friend making opportunities, intellectual conversations available to us - None. Our journalism and business schools are both outstanding. Our mock trial team has gone to nationals every year since its inceptions and ranks consistently in the top twenties. Carolina's study abroad program is the number one in the country. We send more graduates to the Peace Corps than any other school in the United States. Rhodes Scholars certainly aren't unheard of here. The list goes on.</p>

<p>Do you think that's solely a result of our opportunities or professors? No. It's the people here. That's right, us state school students are on a level playing field with the kids at Duke in terms of our practical applications. </p>

<p>I'm going to ask you to refrain from making generalizations about my school without direct knowledge about the subject, especially when people who have yet to visit and find out for themselves can be tainted by misinformation.</p>

<p>To address something that you said earlier - </p>

<p>If people are so much friendlier at parties at Duke, and if there are so many more opportunities there, then why do you come to Chapel Hill to party so often? I'm going to extend my question to all of Duke's campus, actually. Why do I meet Duke students on Franklin Street every weekend? I guess 9th Street's Ben & Jerry's just doesn't cut it.</p>

<p>I don't like taking this tone, and I would not have done so if you hadn't taken it upon yourself to subtly undermine my school. It is unethical to do so when parents who can't afford to let their kid visit read these posts. Were visitation on a level playing field, and had everyone taken a campus visit, I would not feel as compelled to address these issues.</p>

46

<p>I agree with practically all of cloying's statements above, and here are some personal examples to back them up further:</p>

<p>To the charge that Carolina has less funding and thus can afford fewer enrichment opportunities and scholarships for its students -- tonight I attended a club meeting for the first time, and only about 10 members were in attendance. However, the meeting agenda included a discussion regarding which speaker to bring to campus during the coming semester. The budget for the speaker, to be funded by the university, was around an impressive $9,000 for such a small organization! There are over 600 campus groups at Carolina, and each is allotted a similar sum for relevant speakers. UNC very much values and supports these types of additional learning opportunities for students.</p>

<p>Also, the idea that Carolina is not socially on par with Duke is totally ridiculous, to put it bluntly. I have several close friends at Duke and went to visit for a weekend fairly recently. It was a Friday night, and we were looking for something to do. My friend called several different groups of friends and every single one was watching a movie in someone's dorm room. Yes, on a Friday night. And apparently this is a common occurrence. </p>

<p>At UNC, I absolutely could have called several different groups of friends and found them out going to bar nights at Yeats or Vespa, clubs like Player's or Blend, frat parties, house parties, or dorm parties, in addition to free movies at the Union or independent films at the Varsity on Franklin Street. I assure you, there is ALWAYS something to do here at night. My friends from State come over all the time complaining that they have nowhere to go out, and they're definitely in closer proximity to nightlife with Hillsborough Street and Glenwood Avenue nearby than Duke students are in Durham down the road.</p>

<p>Another thing I greatly value about Carolina is its diversity of students. I love that most of the people I come across are open-minded and tolerant. There are countless progressive groups on campus, alongside several more conservative ones. According to one of my best friends, a freshman at Duke, there is no political discourse there because everyone is primarily in the same mindset. Also, she says that the right-wing groups on campus have wealthy alumni who donate sizeable amounts of money, which makes the political spectrum very unbalanced. In addition, she's a vegan and can tragically never find anything to eat :( I wish she would come here more often and walk to the Weaver Street Market in Carrboro with me!</p>

<p>Finally, regarding class sizes: yes, your intro-level classes will be large, but most of them will have recitations to ensure that you get some more individual attention. Take a first-year seminar (most of them are fascinating!) or use your AP scores to place into higher-level courses when you're a freshman. My French literature class only has 17 students, and it's definitely been my favorite so far. Some of my friends are in non-intro psychology, chemistry, and computer science courses they love.</p>

<p>In conclusion: Absolutely everyone I've ever met who has attended Carolina has loved it, and I'd be willing to bet some serious money that you will, too.</p>

47

<p>This thread rapidly degenerated into a Duke/UNC thread, which rarely yields good results. :rolleyes: I do want to correct the following, though, lest any prospective applicant get the wrong idea. </p>

<p>
[quote]
Duke actually does have something sort of like an honors program (actually, in some ways, more like a traditional honors program than UNC's), and it's called FOCUS. While it's different in certain aspects (interdisciplinary and involves some level of outside community involvement), students do have to apply, and a relatively small number are accepted; small seminars are offered, which are probably more rigorous than the regular courses(?), and there's even separate housing for those students chosen to participate. So, some would say that Duke's equivalent offering of an honors program might actually be the FOCUS program.

[/quote]

  1. FOCUS is <em>not</em> a highly selective program. In fact, my freshman year many programs still had spaces. It's simply that a few (mostly the science ones) fill up fairly fast. </p>

<ol>
<li><p>FOCUS students are <em>not</em> in separate housing. They're in the same dorms as everyone else and have non-FOCUS roommates. It's simply that all the students of one FOCUS are in the same dorm. </p></li>
<li><p>FOCUS is only for one semester.</p></li>
</ol>

48

<p>I think Warbler makes a good point re: the deterioration of the thread. Picking the best fit college is a daunting task. Undoubtedly, there are many good choices for a given student. Ultimately, you have to make whatever decision you go with work for you. </p>

<p>Both Duke and UNC reside in the stratospheric realm of institutions of higher learning and each offers its own unique blend of academics, networking, social culture, and cost.</p>

<p>The conflict of deciding between the two is a privilege of immense proportions.</p>

49

<p>Regarding Duke's Focus program, information came from Duke's website, which states, in part:</p>

<p>
[quote]
The Focus Program offers these extraordinary opportunities to first-year and second-year students: </p>

<p>Students apply to Focus – the program – not to a specific course . . . Each cluster offers a range of interrelated seminars and features a community element while fulfilling Duke curriculum requirements . . .
Small group seminars with just 15 students interacting with some of Duke’s most distinguished professors . . . Shared housing with other Focus students that facilitates discussion and scholarly exploration while taking part in Duke’s rich East Campus living environment . . . The Focus Program selects students by online application only and accepts up to 32 students per cluster.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>As stated before, Focus works "sort of like an honors program" for both first and second year students. Whether some "programs still have spaces," and others "fill up fairly fast" is neither here nor there. The point is, it is a special separate offering to which students must apply. Focus clusters certainly do house together (although other students may also be in the same dorm). Focus also has extended components, as implicated on the website, that certainly continue past one semester.</p>

<p>Regarding "thread degeneration," I agree. That's to be expected, though, when students from a rival school choose to come to this forum and make derogatory, unsubstantiated, and incorrect remarks concerning UNC, its students and its faculty. What purpose does that serve?</p>

<p>As Maximus stated, they are both excellent schools, "offering a unique blend of academics, networking social culture . . . "</p>

50

<p>janie makes a good point. In quickly scanning the Duke forum, I didn't notice any UNC upperclassmen hanging out making subtle and not so subtle digs at Duke students or the university. Maybe our kids just have better things to do. ;)</p>

<p>To all...do not fret about Dukie's comments. As authoratitive as they may seem, Dukie has been at Duke for about 3 months and UNC not at all. And according to my Duke alum friends, "Dukie" is to Duke what "Beemer" is to BMW. (Just teasing, of course....lol)</p>

51

<p>Whee!!!!!!!</p>

52

<p>well, from a northern perspective, several people ive talked to thought duke was in the ivy league. i dont think thats ever happened with UNC. im not being an elitist, but i think its fair to say that Duke has a more favorable academic reputation nationally. and this is really splitting hairs, because obviously UNCs a great school. if UNC didn't have a 50% instate acceptance rate, id say it would have a much stronger student body academically. but then again it would lose alot of whats good about it.</p>

<p>ultimately i chose to apply to Duke because i thought i would fair better in smaller classes and ive always preferred more intimate academic environments. also the institute of public policy seems like a perfect fit for me. as a northerner, with family who has attended both schools, im not saying either is the better choice, but Duke definitely has the collective academic intensity im looking for.</p>

<p>but yes, unfortunately a prior poster was right about the so called "idiots" who exist at all schools. when I stayed overnight, my host for the night had a 2370 on his sats. brilliant bookworm type, pre-med, absolute genius. but, another kid in the dorm said he never bought his books. For the most part, students at Duke seemed like my host's roommate: extremely intelligent, working hard, yet having a lot of fun, striking an intellectual and social balance that i think is unique to Duke.</p>

53

<p>Yeah. I don't want to say that Duke kids shouldn't post on this forum, though, because I think warblersrule always has really constructive things to say. I just think that this isn't the right venue for a debate about Duke vs Carolina.</p>

54

<p>What's safety like in Chapel Hill? Do kids walk around at night solo, or not so much?</p>

55

<p>Chapel Hill is very safe. Historic hamlet with narrow winding/hilly roads surrounded by forest, little to none of the big suburban development to spoil the aesthetics. (Home Depot, Walmart, La Quinta etc...are on the Duke side of I-40). Million $ homes up and down Franklin and bordering the campus...real estate is Chapel Hill is highly desirable. Campus is the center of town with the main quad literally opening up on to Franklin Street. So if you are making a run to the drug store or for pizza you are basically on campus until you get to Franklin. The UNC Medical Center and Campus Police are situated on South Campus where most freshman are housed.</p>

<p>My d has never felt unsafe walking alone on campus at night, though she is usually with friends or on her scooter. (I should say, we are from Houston, so it would take a lot to make her feel uneasy.)</p>

56

<p>schnork - I want to mention again the UNC Honors program does offer that small class/intimate atmosphere. All of my d's Honors classes have had approximately 10-30 students. In one class, the professor held some sessions at her home over dinner after which the students would present their major papers for discussion. And she found these classes very challenging. </p>

<p>Many of my d's friends at UNC are from NoVa and DC area, but I would agree Duke does have more of a 'northern' thing going on. However, I would also say UNC doesn't feel very 'southern' to me either.</p>

<p>And while UNC has never been mistaken for a member of the Ivy League, it most definitely is considered one of the premier "Public Ivies". Btw...I don't think confusing Duke for an Ivy League school is a common mistake made here in Houston. We just consider it to be a good private comparable to our Rice University. I dare say West Coast people probably feel the same...Duke is almost on par with their Stanford. Just regional differences in perception I suppose.</p>

57

<p>Maximus, I concur with ldmom06's feedback on campus safety. When we toured the campus, we were pleased to hear about the campus transportation. If students find themselves stranded or alone in the middle of the night, they can call and get a ride back to their dorm.</p>

58

<p>Chapel Hill is really safe. Students walk around at all hours on Franklin Street. It feels like part of the campus. I've never had or heard of any security issues there. I would most definitely NOT say the same thing about the area surrounding Duke, which is why Duke has a more closed-off and distinct campus.</p>

59

<p>Well, to answer the original question, a overwhelming majority of my experiences at UNC have been great. I suppose my only complaint is about having large classes and the whole TA thing. Similar to cloying, I was always very close with my teachers in high school, but here you really have to go out of your way to get close with professors for large classes. I'm pretty sure 3 out of 4 of my professors this semester don't know my name, and that sucks and sometimes makes me wish I had chosen Davidson instead. TAs can also be quite a pain, especially because they all grade differently and you just always seem to get stuck with the one that grades harsher than the rest.</p>

<p>But yet, I look at my next semester schedule and am much more excited: 4 of my classes have 25 or less students. One of my professors worked for the UN and helped to write constitutions for various countries. </p>

<p>The social life here is incredible despite whatever the dukie said. Yeah, sometimes frat parties can be "exclusive" but if you make friends with a brother they're awesome, and some frats will let guys in for a few bucks. Aside from frats there's still pleeeeenty to do, on Franklin and on campus. Something that also struck me as really strange (but really awesome) is that everyone I meet seems to somehow know each other or be connected. When I walk anywhere I always see at least one person I know, usually more. When I meet someone new, they seem to know one of my other friends in one way or another. It's great.</p>

60

<p>I'll back Heather up by saying everyone we meet knows each other... we're talking 1-2 degrees of separation in any given direction. </p>

<p>all in all, you have to love UNC!! HAVE TO. If you don't like it here, I don't know what more you want out of college</p>