<p>is there an extreme difference in the quality of academics between UNC and Duke?</p>
<p>Also, for any people (unbiased pleaaaaassseeee) who know a lot about UNC and Duke (campus looks, life, general info) (I am unable to travel to NC), how would you compare the two schools?</p>
<p>Okay, I've seen both so maybe I can help ya. Duke looks like a cathedral. It's gorgeous I think, but look on the website and make sure you like that kind of thing. Carolina is pretty too but there are some parts of it that are not. During the summer I think is when the majority of the construction goes on though. Keep in mind that UNC is a state school though, so it may leave something to be desired as far as looks. I think it's a personal preference though because it seems to me like some people think it's gorgeous and some don't. Franklin street is the main attraction and it's a ton of fun. This is also where many of the frats & soros exist and those houses are GORRRGEOUS! Some of the frats look like castles and some of the sorority houses are so pretty. </p>
<p>As for campus life I will tell you that UNC is called Chapel Thrill. Most people who go there are VERY smart but don't focus solely on academics is what it seems like to me. They aren't the people that you find in the room studying 24/7. They're out at the sports events or with their suitemates playing volleyball and having a cookout in front of the dorm before the big game. It's a funnnn atmosphere that I would recommend. Duke I am not as partial to because everyone I have known that goes to Duke is fairly socially awkward. I know someone on here is going to be mad at me for saying that, but again I say that this is just in MY personal experience.<br>
General info is that as far as I know, it is easier to get better grades at UNC. Of course that doesn't mean that you can't get good grades at Duke. Once again I am no expert on the school.
Are you a rising senior? If you apply and get into both would you be able to fly out and see them before you made your decision??</p>
<p>hope this helps!</p>
<p>Note:</p>
<p>I just posted most of this on another "chances thread" for UNC.</p>
<p>eastcoast makes some very good comparisons between the two schools.</p>
<p>UNC is a far friendlier/happier place. In all the schools we visited, Duke included, we never saw more people smiling, laughing and generally happier than we saw at UNC. </p>
<p>My son just finished his freshman year at UNC. Two of his best friends at UNC are Robertson Scholars. They attend classes at both schools and have to live one semester at the other school. He and I have talked about the UNC/Duke comparison from their perspective. He tells me that they see little difference academically between the two schools. In their opinions the differences between the two schools fall in two or three areas.</p>
<p>First, they see no real discernible difference in the quality of classes or teaching, in fact calculus and many English classes were smaller at UNC. The biggest difference in students is that Duke may have more of a concentration of the "serious" types who are more focused on themselves, don't like study groups, are less friendly and far more competitive in the wrong way,creating in some cases a bit more of a "pressure cooker" atmosphere if you know what I mean? That doesn't necessarily mean that they are "better" or "stronger" students but it does indicate a different mindset and priorities by some. This could merely be a function of numbers/statistics or it could also be because of attitudes developed based on perception of "status" on the part of some of those enrolling which ties into the next difference.</p>
<p>They see that there are many, many kids hung up on the fact that "they go to Duke" and flaunt it when in fact some of the people they are flaunting it to turned down more prestigious or more selective schools to attend UNC. In contrast to what "eastcoast" said in her post.they also said that it was tougher to get an "A" at UNC because there is little to no grade inflation especially in the hard sciences.</p>
<p>Duke SHOULD have a stronger OVERALL group because it is smaller and the entire group is culled from a pool of strong students. Because it is a state school, UNC will undoubtedly have some students who would never get into Duke, but it also has many students (both in state and OOS) who did get in to numerous "elite" schools and turned them down because of financial reasons, either based on true need or merit money that was too hard to turn down.</p>
<p>What if 50% of the incoming class at UNC was exceptionally strong with stats comparable to or even exceeding those at Duke? Mathematically that could indeed be the case when you factor in the other 50% with lower stats, SATs, GPA etc. In this example there would be an almost even number of "exceptional" students at both schools so what difference would there really be for those "exceptional" students? With an incoming class of approx 1600 vs one of 3000 there are going to be differences, but no one at either school closely interacts with ALL their classmates on a daily basis and in both cases friendships/relationships are often formed based on classroom experiences.</p>
<p>What happens in real life is that those "top" students at UNC will end up in in the same classes, either honors or regular their freshman year. They then continue to take the same classes either because requirements of their of courses of study or simply electing to take them together. They then tend to associate outside of school as well. Their daily academic living experience is really no different than the experience that a typical individual would have at Duke. Socially, there is no comparison. Chapel Hill is where the Duke kids come to eat, party and otherwise entertain themselves because Durham leaves a lot to be desired.</p>
<p>This is in no way meant to disparage Duke-it is a truly great school and with its new president can only get better.</p>
<p>UNC has many personalities BECAUSE of its size. If a top student wants small classes and to take advantage of a major research school, wants a little more balance in their lives and wants a complete undergraduate experience UNC is on a par with anyone. At the same time, if someone prefers the anonymity of larger classes, is not overly concerned with grades, and wants the strong social aspects, UNC can provide that as well. </p>
<p>As a friend used to always say:"that's why Baskin Robbins offers 31 flavors!"</p>
<p>I concur with eadad. For top students the two schools are interchangeable other than the fact that UNC costs 1/3 as much for in-state and 1/2 as much for oos. Also, UNC offers a number of academic scholarships in addition to the Morehead and Robertson scholarships where Duke has a handful of free rides and not much else. My daughter was accepted to both, got essentially a full ride to UNC and a half ride to Duke. The difference was $100,000 over four years so she, of course, is going to UNC and loves it.</p>
<p>I agree that for a NC resident, UNC may be a better "value". I am not convinced that such is always true for an OOS student with no financial aid (merit or need-based).</p>
<p>1sokkermom</p>
<p>I believe that an OOS UNC acceptee and a Duke acceptee are comparable students and that if they perform very well in undergraduate studies that neither will have an advantage in applying to post graduate programs or real jobs based on where they went to school. The Duke acceptee will have spent $60,000 to $65,000 more. Value is such a relative term and, frankly, I am naive enough to think that at that level of school an individual's performance at college matters more than the name of the college.</p>
<p>It is only my opinion, I am unable to debate the relative merits of two such outstanding universities and I don't want to dis Duke because they really wanted my daughter to come there.</p>
<p>I agree with 1soccermom, that UNC is good value for in-state Carolina kids. If my kid was accepted to UNC and Duke, with no money from either, I would advise him/her to go to Duke.</p>
<p>People who choose UNC over Duke would be doing it mostly for financial reasons I would think.</p>
<p>That is certainly an important factor to most families. However, the richer variety of courses and majors and overseas opportunities at UNC, plus, credit for more than the 2 AP courses that Duke accepts have been valid reasons for a number of kids I know who chose UNC over Duke where either would have been affordable.</p>
<p>Very good points. I may have been misleading when I said UNC is easier to get better grades. I was judging this relatively through the people I have known and this may not be accurate. Being a NCer I can tell you that most of us set our sights on UNC rather than Duke. This may be price but I think there is more to that. In my personal opinion I would take Wake Forest over Duke any day of the week and that school is in the same price range. For me it's a social scene issue though. I know a girl who went to undergrad at Duke and then transferred to UNC and in her opinion the people at UNC were much friendlier. Like I said though, this is one opinion.</p>
<p>UNC offers over 45 credits for AP courses, and one could start school at UNC as a sophomore. We certainly considered that, and once again, saving 1 years tuition is a financial issue. Nothing wrong with that.</p>
<p>I know students who have chosen UMD, Rutgers, Loyola,Tulane, etc. for their free rides, over Ivy and other schools, and more power to them.</p>
<p>I have had a lot of social experience at Duke for the past three years because my boyfriend goes there. I have found some of the students to be very conceited, unfriendly and disparaging toward me when they find out that I am a Tar Heel. They truly do think themselves to be in some sort of academic stratosphere merely because they attend Duke, and yes, I absolutely agree with the early poster's comment that they are very caught up in the fact that they are Duke students. When my boyfriend visits with me and my friends at UNC, the worst he's gotten is "So, your basketball team really sucked last night!" When I am at Duke, along with the requisite basketball commentary, I am routinely told that I am stupid, my classes are too easy, I go to a safety school, etc. </p>
<p>I readily admit that I am a lifelong Carolina fan and harbor a strong distaste for Duke's athletics; however, when my boyfriend first started there, I was very open minded to the academics of the school and tried very hard to build friendships with the people I met through him. I have met several people there who I genuinely like and enjoy being around, but unfortunately, the majority of the people I have met there have rubbed me the wrong way (particularly the freshman who exclaimed "EUUUUUUUUGHHHHH!!!!!!" in my face when he found out I went to Carolina...sadly, it was painfully apparent that he was not joking).</p>
<p>Academically, I really, honestly do not think there is a noticeable difference. When you pay for a Duke degree, you are really only paying for the name on the degree and the prestige that it brings, which admittedly is a tangible quality and in some postgraduate pursuits I assume is well worth the higher price tag. As far as the actual academic climate, my boyfriend constantly complains about inattentive and ineffective professors who speak nearly unintelligible English, while in my four semesters at Carolina I can honestly say that I have only had two professors that I would describe as generally incompetent. I have taken many interesting courses, and most of my instructors have learned my name and have no trouble finding time for me outside of class should I request it. My boyfriend also seems to have taken just as many intro-level large lecture courses as I have. As far as course selection, I believe there are almost 100 more departments available at Carolina (which makes sense given the relative sizes of the universities). As far as the caliber of the students, I agree with the earlier comment about the focus and competitive natures of the Duke students. There is a large contingent of international students who are extremely academically driven. However, the students at Carolina are generally smart and motivated - in college, the students who genuinely want to be there go to class, and the ones that don't stay in bed till 3 and flunk out. I have never been in a situation in any of my classes, large or small, where I felt that my peers were hindering me academically in any way. Most of the students here are also very friendly and socially aware (the political scene at Carolina is HUGE - my boyfriend is routinely baffled by the emphasis placed on such relatively minor political events as student body president elections!).</p>
<p>The major difference I see between Duke and Carolina is that at Carolina, you really get a "real world education." From what I've seen through my boyfriend's experience at Duke, they really hold your hands all four years, forcing you to live on campus and buy their meal plans for three years, making the freshman year very structured, etc. I really get a "boarding school" vibe when I am there, if that makes sense, and if you feel like you'd benefit from a very structured education from all sides, Duke is a good place for that. Though most choose to spend at least one year on campus at Carolina, it is not required, and there is a huge assortment of housing options, from university dorms to private dorms (Granville Towers) to apartments to the quaint little houses that surround campus and are rented out to students. There is orientation and optional programs for freshmen, but the only thing you are absolutely forced to adhere to is the General College program for your course selections, and even within that there is great flexibility. As far as social options, the Duke social scene is very limited to fraternities and a couple of mediocre clubs and bars around campus. Sometimes there are plays and cultural performances, but after 10, your entertainment options are rather limited. Franklin St., adjacent to UNC's campus, is much more vibrant, and there seem to be a lot more cultural and "special interest" activities on the weekends to occupy those that shun the party scene.</p>
<p>I really think Duke is a great school academically, but I cannot see a reason to justify spending as much as four times the money to go there. No one who knows anything about American colleges and universities thinks UNC is a slouch. So really, if you are accepted to both schools, I'd strongly recommend visiting and choosing the campus that makes you feel the most comfortable. </p>
<p>Whew, that was long winded - hope it was somewhat helpful!</p>
<p>PS: If any Duke students read this and are offended, I do apologize, but I am speaking from personal experience. I have a great respect for your school in spite of the athletic rivalry, but I have not met terribly many students who treat me as if they deserve to have that respect extended to them.</p>
<p>Just a personal experience...</p>
<p>I had a counselor at a camp who attended undergrad at duke and then did pharmaceutical research. She then returned to school at UNC to get a nursing degree. When I asked her the difference between the 2 she told me that the main difference was that people at UNC were more friendly.</p>
<p>Once again this is a personal experience.</p>
<p>yogurt123: In answer to your question about academics, I agree with eadad's assessment. And glasshalffull's statement that OOS UNC students and Duke students are comparable students--yes, I agree with that, too. </p>
<p>But let me add that, even though 82% of UNC students come from NC, a large percentage of those students are also comparable to, and quite academically competitive with, OOS UNC students and Duke students. In fact, most NC students (in our area alone) apply to both Duke and to UNC as a matter of course and are accepted by both schools. And, yes, money is often a factor when making the final decision. However, some kids choose UNC simply because they prefer the atmosphere, or they prefer a larger campus, or they much prefer Chapel Hill to Durham, or they honestly don't believe there is much of a difference in academic quality between the 2 schools-- in terms of both faculty and students--and so can't justify the difference in cost. </p>
<p>Obviously, because UNC is a state university and a larger school, there will probably be more diversity and a wider range of type of student (kinda like life?) there than at Duke, and many view that as a positive, but-- do not be fooled. Many, many UNC in-state students are also comparable to the OOS students at Chapel Hill and the Duke students. Again, I think you might be surprised by how many of those in-state UNC students were also accepted to Duke and other selective schools across the country. Often, in-state students view Chapel Hill as their "default" or "safety" school; ultimately, however, it often turns out to be--as in our case--the most impressive overall. UNC offered more of what our daughter was interested in than any other school (on all levels), and UNC administrators were--by far-- the most personal and helpful throughout the entire application process. Kind of surprising, when you know how many students they're dealing with..</p>
<p>As mentioned before, UNC recognizes high scores on AP exams and offers credit for those courses/scores. So many students (both in-state and OOS) enter UNC with advanced standing. That eliminates a lot of intro courses. And once you are out of large intro courses, and certainly if you're in the honors program taking honors classes, most people would not turn around for the difference in the academic quality of student (between Duke and UNC). And rest assured, most of those kids (including those in-state) in the honors program at UNC were also accepted to Duke, if they bothered to apply. </p>
<p>As far as the look of the campus, in our college travels, my daughter always preferred those campuses that did not go for the grey gothic look (Princeton, Duke, Georgetown...) Beautiful campuses all, but she just felt they seemed cold and, well, grey. That's simply a preference. I think she felt that the warmer brick or even those schools with a few buildings that have wood siding (clapboard?) just had a warmer, more welcoming, feel. I grew up in NC and have always thought UNC was just a beautiful campus, especially the older part (North campus). But both campuses are--just depends on what you find more appealing. (Duke's landscaping is quite something--especially Duke Gardens.) And, also, as others have said ...Chapel Hill is the quintessential college town, for sure. The campus and town are integrated, and they get along. Duke is not within walking distance to Durham, and not sure you'd want to walk there anyway.. </p>
<p>I'll fess up here and say that our daughter will be entering UNC in the fall as a Robertson Scholar and is thrilled to be doing so. The next 4 years will be really interesting for her, and she looks forward to her 2nd year semester living at Duke, as well as taking classes at Duke throughout her 4 years. She might even find herself sitting in a class next to sokkermom's son! </p>
<p>Hope this helps.</p>
<p>Jack:</p>
<p>That's assuming that sokkermom's son actually goes to class. :)</p>
<p>The OP asked the same question on the Duke thread. Gee, what a difference of opinion.....</p>
<p>(I have to be impartial. Yes, son does go to Duke , BUT daughter may want to go to UNC. We are hoping to retire to NC and get in-state tuition. Probably won't happen!)</p>
<p>P.S. Ninth Street in Durham isn't that bad. The following site may be a little dated, but we found some decent restaurants, etc. within walking distance to the Duke Campus.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.ninthst.com/%5B/url%5D">http://www.ninthst.com/</a></p>
<p>1sokkermom: Ninth Street is appealing--about the only street in Durham that is-- and, yes, within walking distance for freshmen, I guess, who are on the old Trinity campus(?). </p>
<p>Some of my comments were in response to a couple of your original posts, which I note are missing now. At any rate, they are both outstanding schools. I do think the OP should try to make a trip to NC, if at al possible, because students who visit really do get totally different impressions of each school. That impression/feeling is so personal, that it's hard to advise people. But each school certainly has its strengths and stand-out departments. </p>
<p>I did read the posts on the Duke thread. Now..what was it the OP requested? Oh yeah... "unbiased pleaaaaaasssseeee..." Oh, well. Good luck to your daughter.</p>
<p>My daughter is a Dukie and could not imagine being anywhere else. I will tell you, though, that she is not into the Greek scene at all. Most of her friends are internationals and Americans with different ethnic backgrounds. Why? ...because my daughter is very committed to academics, and it seems that most of the other American students who look like her are more into partying heavily several times per week. She chooses to surround herself with others who are dedicated to making the most of the academics Duke has to offer. </p>
<p>In no way, though, is she a recluse. She participates in the Duke Chapel Choir, which requires a bit of practice and performance time every week (plus weekend performance trips), DanceSlam, Project Child (tutoring underprivileged children in Durham weekly), and Bible study. She is actually studying at Oxford this summer and having the time of her life. And, of course, she has become a huge basketball fan and rarely missed a game last year.</p>
<p>I guess what I am saying is that the party scene is HUGE at Duke, yet
there are plenty of students there who also find what makes them happy instead of regular parties. </p>
<p>And, of course, anyone at Duke or UNC who wants to visit the other campus any day of the week (I think) can ride the Robertson Scholars' bus for free! Many Dukies do take that bus to Franklin Street on weekends to meet up with their UNC friends.</p>
<p>This thread reminded me of a very interesting piece published in Duke's daily newspaper relatively recently. A Duke friend of mine who, thankfully, recognized the absurdity of this column sent it to me when it was originally published in Duke's Chronicle a few months ago. It will give you a pretty good idea of the crass attitudes and behaviors of a depressing majority of Duke students toward other academic institutions and the students who attend them. There was backlash from the minority of reasonable members of the community (including one of the university's own embarrassed professors), but unfortunately, my experience has let me to believe that most Duke students concur with these sentiments. The comments lend even more insight.</p>
<p>For those who aren't familiar with student newspapers, this unbridled arrogance is not the norm, at least to my knowledge. I have never, ever read anything remotely like this in the Daily Tar Heel. It isn't just an innocuous excess of school spirit. That, in my opinion, is the major difference between UNC students and Duke students, because I truly have never encountered any UNC students who espouse this kind of extreme egoism and elitism.</p>
<p>Quote: "It will give you a pretty good idea of the crass attitudes and behaviors of a depressing majority of Duke students toward other academic institutions and the students who attend them. "</p>
<p>Hopefully your boyfriend who goes to Duke isn't in the "depressing majority".
He still is your boyfriend isn't he..?? :)</p>
<p>He is still my boyfriend and fortunately is not derisive toward non-Duke students, or else he would cease to be my boyfriend, but as a longtime resident of Durham, he is intensely bothered by the attitudes most of his friends and acquaintences have toward his hometown and the South in general. He loves Duke and does very well there (lifelong Duke fan, absolutely abhors light blue), but he will tell you himself that he is routinely disgusted by the hypercompetitive and egotistical natures of many of his fellow students. I know your son is a student there and I'm certainly not indicting him or anything - he's probably perfectly nice and not one of those about whom I'm speaking, but as someone who spends a significant amount of time there as an outsider, I can assure you that, unfortunately, the superiority complex is very pervasive. I'm not saying I don't have a good time there, but the times I've gotten back on the Robertson bus with a sour taste in my mouth are many.</p>