<p>bayvcrobert is totally right about the “big gap” between these schools…if you’re a future Fields medalist. </p>
<p>If you’re only a superstar, with grad classes there for the taking at all your options, yeah, then listen to Alexandre.</p>
<p>If money matters at all, go to UNC, get a tan, and save money for grad school at Princeton.</p>
<p>wbwa, only 12 Americans have won the Fields medal. </p>
<p>Chicago had 2 alums win the Fields Medal, Columbia and Michigan each had 1.</p>
<p>At any rate, if there is a “big gap” between Chicago and Michigan or Columbia, then similarly, there is a “big gap” between MIT and Chicago. Neither claim makes sense. The gap between Chicago and Columbia or Michigan, particularly for undergrads, is negligible.</p>
<p>“bayvcrobert is totally right about the “big gap” between these schools…if you’re a future Fields medalist.”</p>
<p>So much for Chicago’s “far superior” math department.</p>
<p>
0.3 difference is 33% of gap between being considered “distinguished” and “strong”…don’t know if I’d call it “negligible” because it does account for some difference. :)</p>
<p>Alexandre is wrong; Princeton, UCB, Harvard, MIT and Chicago have the best undergraduate math departments in the country according to the Gourman Report.</p>
<p>GOURMAN
(5) Chicago
(10) Columbia
(11) Michigan</p>
<p>lesdiablesbleus, are you sure you want to use Gourman as a source? </p>
<p>According to that same ranking, Duke is #51 in Mathematics.</p>
<p>According to that same ranking, Michigan is #3 as an overall undergraduate academic institution. </p>
<p>I’ll take Michigan’s #11 ranking in Mathematics if that means you agree with the rest! hehe!</p>
<p>^^^It sounds about right to me. :-)</p>
<p>Alexandre:</p>
<p>“…if you’re a future Fields medalist.”</p>
<p>No disrepect to the OP was intended but, mathematically yes, the odds are he’s “only a superstar.”</p>
<p>Sarcasm at work.</p>
<p>Updates: I’ve gotten $15,000 in scholarship money from UMich and also another $5,500 in loans.
The Gourman report is rankings for PhD programs at school, so it’s not completely accurate, but I feel like it must have SOME correspondence with the undergrad programs. Can someone please tell me how much better UMich is at math than UNC? Especially if this scholarship I’m getting is getting me special access to the UNC professors…</p>
<p>Furthermore, I think it’s worth paying the $57,000/yr it is to go to Chicago, because it will DRASTICALLY increase my chances of getting into, say, Princeton or MIT graduate school. I will take the loans for grad school, and probably make the money back much more quickly than if I went to UNC for free and had my parents pay for, say, Michigan grad school. Plus, I will get a better education at Chicago and learn how to work hard. </p>
<p>Thoughts?</p>
<p>Oh wow, I’m pretty sure I just confused the Gourman Report with the NRC rankings from Texas Tech in 1995. Sorry, but can anyone get me a copy of these Gourman Report rankings?</p>
<p>Your prospects for graduate school admission will be determined mainly by your academic performance and your GRE scores; you can achieve your stated objectives from any of these schools. I still say that UNC is the most sensible choice - and I’m speaking as a UChicago grad. While I think UChicago is the best math department among your options, UNC is unquestionably the rational choice here. Don’t let perceptions of prestige cloud your judgment.</p>
<p>Can you explain why you think this? Let’s say I had zero problems with money, then what would you say? UNC’s math department is looked upon as very weak, and more than getting into a great graduate school, I want to be able to have tons of intellectual mathematical conversation with my peers. I hear this is what UChicago is like, and I feel like I will be at the “top of the food chain” in the math department at UNC, so to speak. I’ve been like that at my HS for four years, and all I want are people to share in the same mathematical joy that I do. When I went to UNC for the scholarship program, not ONE person was going to be a math major. What does this say?</p>
<p>If you are that concerned about your prospects at UNC, I suggest you ask them directly about their graduate placements for their top students. UChicago’s math department is excellent, but as an economic proposition I do not think it is $150,000+ “better” than UNC. Taking on significant debt at the undergraduate level is rarely a good idea, particularly if there are reasonable alternatives. Besides, UNC is a fine school.</p>
<p>Daman, how much math have you taken already? Chicago’s math department runs heavily to pure math, and when a lot of folks get to Analysis (anywhere, not just Chicago) they hit the wall because it becomes more proof-driven and abstract. (S1 is a Chicago math major, and yes, he hangs out in the math lounge with fourth years and grad students discussing esoterica.) If you want applied math > pure, I’d go with Michigan > Chicago. If you decide math is not for you, what would you study? Picking a school only for the major you want can be a risky proposition.</p>
<p>A full ride is fabulous, and it makes a difference to your parents or you in terms of how much you’d have to borrow to fund a different school, I’d give UNC serious consideration. S turned down a free ride at a flagship, so we are familiar with the financial pain of that choice, but also of the opportunities he has had at Chicago.</p>
<p>I will say that of the schools on your list, Michigan and Chicago were the only ones S considered. The others were never on the radar. Georgia Tech is a meat grinder and it is the one school where I would have vetoed an application. What is the basis for your confidence that you would get off the Chicago waitlist? You really need to be focused on your current acceptances.</p>
<p>As for how much math experience I’ve had, I’m currently in my 3rd class at Iona College, as I’ve finished all my math at high school. I spend several hours a day prepping for competitions, as I love number theory, combinatorics, algebra, and all competition math. Olympiad proofs are phenomenally interesting. I went to AwesomeMath this past summer, and really improved my competition ability. This year, I fell in love with Math History, and I am currently writing a book composed of several 20-25 page papers on mathematicians and their contributions to mathematics, along with their proofs. However, I left most calculus out, as my purpose in writing this book is to reach out to 8th-11th graders who, like myself, were unfortunate in that their school does not really advocate math. As a matter of fact, my school cancelled the American mathematics Competition, and I had to go to other schools to take it. I am very, very sure that I want to be a mathematician when i finish grad school.</p>
<p>As for discussing esoterica, that sounds phenomenal. I am really worried about the students at UNC. I know UNC is a wonderful school for classics (I take Latin, and my teacher is a classics major from Columbia, so has gotten me intereted) and very good for chemistry (my 3rd choice for a major, if I get past all math majors and linguistics). I am just too sure that I want to major in math to risk that type of drop in education. I know Chicago is beyond incredible as a school, and, after my first year, I can inundate my schedule with the huge variety of math classes they have, while dabbling myself in their physics and economics courses taught by nobel prize winners.</p>
<p>My basis for being so sure I will get off the wait list is that my original application was done the day before, and I sent them the essay that was for Princeton. Out of their unique topics, I actually gave them an essay with the topic “who Inspires you?” something not at all creative or thoughtful. I have also done very well in competitions recently, and have just told them about my book. I expressed my heavy interest in going there, and hopefully that sways them.</p>
<p>…bump…</p>
<p>Daman, with a $15,000 scholarship, Michigan will cost you $35,000/year, making it roughly $80,000 (over 4 years) cheaper than Chicago or Columbia. Contrary to what some here have said, there is no difference in the quality of Chicago’s, Columbia’s and Michigan’s Mathematics departments. If you look at some of the profiles of Mathematics PhD students at Cal, Caltech, MIT and Princeton, you will see that there are as many graduate students who completed their undergraduate studies at Columbia or Michigan as there who completed their undergraduate studies at Chicago. </p>
<p>Still, UNC would cost you virtually nothing, so I think that would be your best bet.</p>
<p>I don’t understand why it’s worth saving $135,000 for a sacrifice in education</p>
<p>$135,000 is a LOT of money. You are acting like UNC is a community college or something-its not. UNC is a top 5 public university and you will get a great education there at virtually no cost to you.</p>
<p>^^^^Totally agree!</p>