<p>I wanted to restart this thread, but I changed it 'top schools", not just top 20. I thought it was a really good thread and it gave me a lot hope for my DS that will most likely be in this range. It was really fun and interesting to see some of the results last year. It's nice to just start fresh. If you haven't read through the thread from last year do a search!! Some of the results will surprise you.</p>
<p>It’s nice to see a renewed interest on this topic. Even though I don’t have an '11er, I’ll follow this thread. Good luck to all the parents on this thread…it will be a thrill ride!</p>
<p>Here is the link to last year’s thread that 5boys referred to in the OP -</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/767118-under-3-6-gpa-applying-top-20-parents-thread.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/767118-under-3-6-gpa-applying-top-20-parents-thread.html</a></p>
<p>Oh dear. My fear is that it will cause a lot of families to pony up application fees for long shots. We all adore when a long shot wins – but most of the bets on long shots do not pay out. I hope families will closely scrutinize how their candidate fits into the school’s past acceptance groups (for instance there is a difference between a 3.5 with a 2400 SAT and a 3.2 and a 1800 SAT).</p>
<p>I’m glad to see this thread; we’ll definitely report here. And, I seriously don’t think that this thread alone will cause families to “pony up” for long shots…if I recall the original thread, most of the kids in this GPA range who were considering top schools had something else on their application that might help–difficult curriculum, outstanding extracurriculars, high test scores.</p>
<p>Thanks for starting a new thread on this topic. I lurked (mostly) on the other thread and found it really interesting!
For starters - did anyone apply early decision or early action to these top colleges?</p>
<p>I kept an eye on the original thread also. Some schools don’t weight GPAs so yes, some of those 4.0 and up GPAs are really 3.6 and up GPAs unweighted. If anything the original thread “helped” parents understand how colleges may view all the different GPA reporting.</p>
<p>S2 (HS class of '10) applied Early Action to UChicago and Priority Decision to UMCP (both accepted), as well as to Georgetown EA (deferred, later rejected). College Park takes 90% of its applicants from Priority Apps and one must apply Priority for merit $$ consideration, so there was no missing that one at our house! :)</p>
<p>He did not apply ED, though if he had been turned down at UChicago in the EA round, doing ED II at Tufts was very much on the table, as Chicago and Tufts were far and away his two top choices.</p>
<p>I also posted on last year’s thread. My S was accepted ED at WUSTL with a 3.5 UW, 4.2 W with a rigorous schedule, in the Top 10%, and 35 ACT.</p>
<p>Like CountingDown’s son, my kid applied EA to Chicago and Georgetown. I’m sure it helped at Chicago. I think he was destined to get rejected at Georgetown in any event. (They don’t reject anyone EA so the deferral meant nothing.) I agree that with a lowish GPA the rest of your application needs to work. My son had a good rank, rigorous curriculum and quirky activities he wrote about in his essays. He also showed his sense of humor in his essays.</p>
<p>High SATs can offset a lower GPA. But the top 20 schools are tend to look for high SATs and GPA… are we talking 3.6 UW or weighted?</p>
<p>On S2’s transcript, which included four year-long HS classes taken in MS, it was 3.49 UW/4.24 W. 9th-12th grade GPAs were almost .1 point higher. SAT 2290, 770/770/730 SAT-IIs, full IB diploma plus 11 APs. Terrific essays. Unusual combination of ECs/interests.</p>
<p>In our case, academic courses unweighted was 87, school unweighted was 93 (it included 2 orchestra classes every year), weighted was 97. Translate how you wish to the 4.0 scale. 
SAT was 790.690/670, all his reported SATs were over 700 including a 790 in US history, 7-8 APs (depending on how you count them), with 5’s on all the three he took before senior year.</p>
<p>With my S it is an almost 3.6 unweighted, a 4.14 weighted, SAT was 740/760/690 (lowest in Writing), 760 SAT II US Hist 790 SAT II Chemistry, full IB, top 10%. Not sure on essays, great ECs.</p>
<p>He is EDing to Wesleyan, which we know is a reach, but we are hoping his mix of being a Science/Theater guy will appeal to them.</p>
<p>GKM… Is that your S’s GPA through this year, or is it through Junior year? I’m have been wondering about ED app’s for my S with a big upward trend this year as a Junior… unfortunately he only had a 3.1 Sophmore year… our school doesn’t calculate Freshman GPA into total, so even if he continues to get all A’s this year his GPA would only be 3.5 or so. I’m worried that colleges will want to see Senior Fall grades on him and applying ED might be a disadvantage.</p>
<p>How about the under 2000 SAT students? My kid has a great GPA (4.0 uw and 4.6 w) and class rank (#1) but no stellar SAT or ACT scores. (SAT (1980): math 800, CR 610, W 570 and ACT (29) math 36, R:31, S:28, E:22). SAT II’s are good (math 780 and physics 790) and AP Scholar with distinction. Will graduate with 10 AP’s and 6 college classes. Needless to say a little unbalanced with the math/English thing. The top universities seem to want a little more balance than that–I mean why take a top math/science student when you can get one that is also good at English?</p>
<p>Anybody else out there in a similar boat?</p>
<p>I’m not a parent, but a kid in the same situation. I read through about half (the first 30 pages, then the last 50, looking for results), and it seems that if you want to get in, you need as many “mini/pseudo hooks” as possible. Such as:</p>
<p>1) Good SATs- not necessarily 2400, but the higher the better</p>
<p>2) Good class rank- after all, a 3.5 who is #1 is better than a 4.0 in the top 25%. A good class rank can show either a tough school, grade deflation, or if its weighted how rigorous the course load was. top 10% is the magical number, although for T20 schools, its likely you need to be closer to top 5%</p>
<p>3) Good extracurriculars- while its easier for math/science kids to show off with Siemens or USAMO, english or social studies kids have stuff like Boy’s State and the NTCE writing awards. Basically, anything that shows how accomplished you are is good. If a 4.0/2400 kid who does nothing sometimes gets rejected, a 3.5/2400 who also does nothing almost certainly will.</p>
<p>4) Rigorous curriculum- although I think this is basically a given with most T20 schools.</p>
<p>5) URM- it doesn’t lower the bar, but it gives you a better shot at it.</p>
<p>6) male- acceptance rates for guys are several points higher</p>
<p>7) Tough school- schools like TJ or Maggie Walker invariably create lower GPAs due to the increased rigor of ordinary classes, despite the higher caliber of students. However, if this is the case for you, you probably already know it.</p>
<p>any other mitigating factors people have noticed? Good luck to everyone.</p>
<p>great analysis Packer. I would add:</p>
<ul>
<li><p>The perfect niche fit for one of their specialty university programs – if they have incredible profs doing neuroscience research and you’ve done work in a similarly brilliant and obscure area (plus appropriate targeted awards and SAT subscores), they might reward your “fit”</p></li>
<li><p>Superlatives - You somehow write their very favorite essay of the year, or your GC’s letter calls you the most intellectual student in ten years. Not to be confused with one’s own opinion of having outstanding LORs and essays. :)</p></li>
<li><p>Apply ED - this may give a boost at universities just below the tip-top who can get touchy about yield or crave full-pay students</p></li>
</ul>
<p>5boys, that is through Junior year, with a good upward trend as well.</p>
<p>luchteam…I think my D will have the situation you are describing…perhaps we should start a separate thread on that!</p>
<p>Glad you re-started this thread … I will follow with interest, and post if things are going on. For the time being, D has kept up a nice upward trend in grades (still about a 3.6 UW though) and got a very pretty ACT score in October (31) and has a 700 SAT2 Lit score as well. She’s adding a few reaches (Vassar, Brandeis, Northwestern) that had seemed beyond her grasp before. But all will be RD, since this new score came late in the game. She’ll take extra time working on her essays, and we’ll see what happens.</p>
<p>She has lots of other choices, being a theatre major looking for a high-quality BA or BFA (which doesn’t always mean a top-tier school, but usually is a less than 20% admit rate, sometimes single digits). I’m willing to spend another $100 or so for her to take a chance on these other schools; it means so much to her self-confidence that she was even a candidate, and I think she has the maturity now not to take it completely personally if she doesn’t get in. She’ll have to have a strong backbone for the auditions and the rest of the process anyway.</p>
<p>Good luck to everyone, and thanks for the advice, veterans!</p>
<p>EmmyBet… glad to have you on this thread. I have been following the 2011 thread because I have a Junior DS and I want to be prepared for what is in store for us next year. YIKES!! Sounds stressful, but an exciting ride so far. I am so happy for your daughter with scoring that 31 on the ACT. That is amazing. It goes to show that they do mature a lot Senior year. We are anxiously awaiting the scores of my DS’s first SAT to be out next week. I think it could go either way with him. Test taking is usually his strength, with his GPA being the tough sell.</p>
<p>He had a 3.2 going into Junior year, but this year looks a lot more promising, he brought home straight A’s this quarter… and that’s with harder classes… no AP’s last year.
So, I have hope, that like your daughter and her new ACT scores opening doors for her, that if he continues with this trend this year and the beginning of next year, he will have A LOT more choices. But, it is up to him, and how hard he wants to work. Visiting some schools last year really put a fire under him. </p>
<p>I have a 9th grade DS who will be doing the whole BA/BFA decision in a few years, so I will be waiting, watching for advice on how it all works out for your daughter.</p>