Under 3.6 and applying to top schools ( 2010-11)

<p>I agree unusual ECs being a help. (It doesn’t have to be anything earthshaking, my son wrote about origami for his main Common App essay.) I also think my son’s essay’s helped. I loved the essay my son wrote for his Tufts alternative history essay last year and suspect it may have turned the scales in his favor. (Not really an essay - he did it as excerpts from fake historical first sources.) He also had a very nice letter from his math teacher - he’s no math whiz, but the teacher wrote a lovely letter about how he really understood math even if he didn’t always get the top grades in the class.</p>

<p>My kid did not take every AP offered either, but he I believe he was on the high end for his school.</p>

<p>Also congrats on the great acceptances so far - especially the future Jumbos. :)</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Mathmom - I loved the essay my son wrote for his Tufts alternative history essay (it had to do with a pair of new eyeglasses saving the Titanic thus allowing Astor the chance to build hotels thus preventing the Depression) and only wish he had had a chance to submit it! LOL!</p>

<p>The reason why they emphasize class rank is because of how different the schools are around the country and they want to see how the students do in the context of their environment. An UW 3.6 at our HS would land a student in the top 10%. It’s a very rigorous, grade deflated HS.</p>

<p>EmmyBet, please recalculate your D’s GPA without the “non-academic” courses. The colleges base their decisions on grades in: Math, Science, English, History/ Social Studies, Language.</p>

<p>Whether it’s ED or EA, it certainly sets the whole process in a different light when the first decision is a YES! My kids did not want to do ED, but they each got a first acceptance early on (one in November and one in February) which relieved the stress completely, as these weren’t even safeties. It makes the rejections to come easier to take! </p>

<p>Congrats to all and good luck to those still in the hunt!</p>

<p>Big congrats to Levirm and Aeddar!! Great news, and great schools!</p>

<p>I’ll also join the chorus about the importance of personal statements to these kids…if you read my S’ essay, you’d immediately know it was him. He really put himself out there. But, contrary to the usual advice, it wasn’t a “slice of life” essay focusing on 1 particular moment. It was more about a particular aspect of his personality.</p>

<p>Big CONGRATS to ST, levirm & Aeddar! Echo what CD wrote - there sure seems to be more ED apps this year, and more success stories too!</p>

<p>Aeddar - I kept trying to convince S to look at Carleton - I am sure he would have loved it! I have two friends who are both on the board of trustees who are just in love with the school (one wound up going to Harvard for an MBA, the other to Northwestern law school). Congrats to your son!</p>

<p>Thanks all , and congrats to ST and levirm. To echo what others have said, I agree that showing interest (in particular with ED) and the essay are very important in these cases. This S, who’d been a bit of a flake about turning in HW in grades 9 and 10, got started early on his essay, and put a lot more time into it than his sibs had; I think what he ended up with pretty interesting, appropriately quirky, and reasonably well written.
Pizzagirl, from what I’ve read and heard I’m very taken with Carleton too; even if the reality falls a bit short of our impressions it would still be a great place :slight_smile:
This is our youngest child, so I probably won’t be coming around much, but the info and support here has been a big help. Thanks again!</p>

<p>Pizzagirl - that sounds like a great essay. The minute my son saw the question he was figuring out how he would answer it. It really gave him a chance to shine.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Using this as a jumping-off point. I have no context with which to evaluate this.
If you took the lowest GPA that would qualify for the top 10% just as a starting point, what’s the level at which you say “this school is very rigorous”? If the top 10% takes you down to 3.8? 3.6? 3.4? 3.2? I feel like this is said all the time on CC but I don’t have a context to say what’s rigorous and what’s not.</p>

<p>It’s true that in evaluating grades it helps to know what the distribution looks like- if 3.5 is the median (as at some colleges) then a 3.6 is different than when the median is 3.2. (our high school doesn’t rank, and keeps the overall grade distribution secret so what little we know comes from the classes where teachers report distributions on the test.) It is also helpful to know how the grades match up with external measures:
in the case of AP classes of 24 students, 8 get A’s, 8 get A-, and 12 get get 5’s, the class may be more rigorous than one when only 4 get A’s, 8 get A- (so tougher curve) but only say 3 get 5’s. I guess the grade-deflation and advanced content may often go together, but not necessarily. Unfortunately except for AP’s and IB’s the curriculum is too varied to really allow an objective measure of how much/well material the students learn.</p>

<p>Congrat’s to all the acceptances this week!!! Way to go… it seems to me that we have a lot more acceptances ED in this thread than last year… Of course I am watching this thread like a hawk… next year is so close…ahhh!!!.</p>

<p>I like what pizzagirl has to say and I truly agree. I have had my suspicions about college admissions and that maybe ad com’s are getting really sick of all the packaged applicants. My S’s school is full of them. I started a thread last year about the college acceptances from my DS’s prep school last year and it seemed to me that a lot of the tippy top kids were being denied and some of the kids that maybe didn’t have the very top stats, but were VERY passionate about their lives, and could write about that and come across as authentic had more success. I mean at some point all these packaged kids sound the same. </p>

<p>After seeing this years acceptance threads, and especially results in this thread… I probably won’t discourage my DS from applying anywhere. I really don’t think he knows yet if he will love a place so much he will apply ED… we also need financial aid. It should be an wild ride, but I am encouraged… because he is an amazing kid with a GPA in the range of this thread, great test scores, will have amazing LOR’s, but most of all has refused to package himself so he will be very unique. His passions will have to shine through.</p>

<p>I put in the point about the GPA / rank to show that just pointing to a GPA as a cutoff for whether a student is likely to get into a school is arbitrary, when a 3.6 at one school only puts a student in the top 25%, but at another, with that same grade would be among the top students at the school. </p>

<p>I guess this is a roundabout way of saying that an “A” average might be average at one school, but exceptional at another, and the colleges might even pick a B+ student from the second school over the A student from the first.</p>

<p>3.6 is top 10% in our high school, but it is not because it’s so rigorous. It’s because there are so many students who are not making school their priority. </p>

<p>I wish more colleges had EA - neither of my kids weren’t ready to commit to one school, but I thought for both EA was a good thing, even though in S1’s case (a tippy top student) the EA was two deferrals at schools that eventually rejected him. In S2’s case it made him realize his list was not all impossible reaches (plus a safety he loved) and that it is possible to get admissions officers to look past some shaky grades.</p>

<p>I agree about the EA mathmom… I am trying to have my DS look at some EA schools that are really a fit for him… that way he will know early on one way or the other, and if he gets into one of his EA schools, he can then shoot for the moon if he wants… my philosophy is… fall in love with your safety FIRST, then whatever happens after that is just icing on the cake… spoken from a true naive 2012 mom…LOL!!! He does have a few EA schools that he likes on his list already though… Colorado College, Sewanee, and Lewis and Clark.</p>

<p>I suspect EA doesn’t give the same admissions bonus as ED or even single-choice EA, but EA acceptances let the kids cut down on application-writing time and stress, which is great! So it is too bad this option isn’t more common.
Good luck next year 5boys!</p>

<p>SDonCC - I appreciate your points about the fine distinctions in stats and your suggestion that we take care. That is what this thread is all about, specifically about how complicated it is understanding how things fit together for these kids in high-selectivity admissions. And because we’re all really reaching, by definition, I appreciate anyone who gives us a reality check once in a while.</p>

<p>I took your advice and recalculated my D’s GPA with only Math, English, Social Studies, Science and FL grades. Up to Junior year, she had a 3.4 UW; after Junior year it was a 3.5 (still UW). This semester she’s carrying all As. She’s taken the highest rigor possible in every class, all advanced, honors, AP where possible. She had 2 APs last year (where she got her only Bs) and 3 this year. She was a late bloomer in Math/Science but always took the hardest classes. Another big ding was that while she loves language in general, she just couldn’t click with the FL curriculum/teachers at our school, and picked up some Bs there. And while I’ve taken out her arts grades, they show enormous dedication and advancement, too. </p>

<p>She has a very visible upward trend and all of her other app elements are excellent. It’s clear that she’s dedicated herself to literature and the arts, and that’s who she is, and definitely with an intellectual focus. I’d say she’s definitely a “well-lopsided” kid, and she’s doing her best to show that, plus that she’s ready for hard, exciting work in college.</p>

<p>I wouldn’t call our HS terribly competitive - it’s kind of more like mathmom’s description - but I can’t entirely explain her rank. Her first two years were a mixture of following her own unconventional path (writing papers on her own topics just for fun, and focusing less on studying for spit-out-the-facts tests - the papers usually never got turned in because the teachers “didn’t know what to do with them”), and some lack of confidence due to a variety of factors. Kids who gladly spit facts out their first 2 years are outranking her now, but they’re getting creamed in the AP classes while she’s shining more and more all the time.</p>

<p>Her ACT score is the reason she decided to “reach” after all, and she knows she’s taking her chances. She’s not the kind of kid on this thread who has a 3.6 because she’s at a tough prep school or doing an IB program. But as a displaced easterner I’ll remark that many, many kids from mediocre little HSs, with lopsided GPAs, are able to show their spark of potential and are accepted to a variety of very selective schools - maybe not at a high rate, but it happens. My D isn’t trying for HYP, but since most of her reaches take a holistic approach, and since she does fit their “range” stat-wise, I am happy she’s decided to put herself out there. </p>

<p>She’s also the type who jumps at those creative, quirky essays and relishes the chance to write them.</p>

<p>She’s done several EAs, but her higher reaches tend only to do ED. She didn’t do ED because of her priority of pursuing the auditioned theatre programs and also because it will be very helpful for this semester’s grades to be part of any selective admissions process.</p>

<p>You might hear about a long list of disappointments from us (including the auditioned, “other” side of her app process). But I think she’s doing the right thing right now, and she understands the big picture.</p>

<p>I wish everyone a lot of success. I agree with the comments that kids who didn’t sacrifice who they were for the sake of a grade or two, or kids who had a rough freshman year that is coming back to haunt them, should apply to the higher selectivity schools and that those schools do take them. Advice and support here, too, can definitely make a difference. I’m grateful for that.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>I’d never done this, but I just calculated D1’s GPA using this rubric as an academic (heeheehee) exercise. Through junior year, it comes out UW just under 3.3. Weighted, I’d guess around 3.9. </p>

<p>Now, I don’t know if Tufts recalculates GPA looking at just core academic grades, but I suspect that a GPA which is a few tenths under our bright line of 3.6 needs to be counterweighed by other factors on the application. Though I agree that the essay is crucial, I’d also argue that a kid with this level of GPA has to show academic strength via high test scores and high class rank, or high test scores and a school profile making it clear that the school’s academic expectations are very high. There are exceptions when a college detects a (as EmmyBet puts it) “spark of potential”, but it’s still the exception. Lightning does strike somewhere. :)</p>

<p>It’s also worth doing homework to see how a reach school regards a lower GPA. D1 loved Pomona, but Pomona loves high GPAs. Its admissions are holistic, but maybe not as holistic as other schools.</p>

<p>(delurking) ^Anecdotally, I have to put in a word of agreement about Pomona. My friend was accepted to Swarthmore, Bowdoin, Middlebury, and W&L with Johnson (full-ride merit scholarship)–but rejected ED from Pomona. She’s from SoCal and GPA was her one weakness.</p>

<p>At my DS’s HS the only GPA that is recorded is in academic classes… so the kids never even know what their GPA would be if electives and PE were added in. I think that is a good reality check for them when they are looking at schools. Also, this HS is one of the top prep schools in the country ( not a BS) and is known by colleges as producing amazing kids who are VERY prepared for college. They always have at least 50% of kids into top 20 schools. So, I take this into account when I look at my DS’s 3.4ish GPA. He has had a GREAT first semester this year and had GREAT results from his first SAT in Nov. I agree that since his GPA will probably end up around the 3.6, he will have to shine in all other areas. I think he does so far, but he has not written any essays yet, and I am a little concerned about how he will do on those.</p>

<p>I have a friend who made it into Cornell with a 3.69 GPA, he took about 8 APs and had a 2240 on the SAT (first time taking it). He was gifted but lazy, oh and his ECs were pretty good.</p>