Under 3.6 (GPA) and Applying Top 20 Parents Thread

<p>mom2and:</p>

<p>I like how you identified three factors in whether a kid will succeed at a top school: ability, motivation, and discipline. My son’s Achilles heel is discipline. He has a powerful intellect and loves to learn, but he can’t manage his time or prioritize competing obligations. I worry that his experience at a HYP would be trial by fire, and that maybe he should have a few more years at a lower-tier college to learn the necessary skills. Then, if he’s so inclined, he can shoot for a top grad school.</p>

<p>If a kid is having doubt that he can do well in a top tier college, then don’t apply to that college. It is one thing to acknowledge a slim chance on acceptance, but it is quite another to question one’s own intellectual or disciplinary fit. If, inspite of this doubt, the kid presses on, the lack of confidence may very well come out during the interview if he gets this far. It would be a terrible loss if the reason for rejection is the palpable self-doubt in the interview.</p>

<p>So, if your kid doesn’t have doubt about his own ability to hang with the big boys, don’t put one in his mind.</p>

<p>Right on, PaperChaserPop. As I’ve said in previous posts, part of my job as a parent is to help my kid realize his dreams if possible. I have questioned him about whether he wants to compete at the highest level, but not about whether he’s able. I agree that that decision must be left to him.</p>

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<p>In my opinion, a kid fitting this description would have a harder time at most state flagships, where they let you sink or swim, than HYPS where you’re not just a number and they want everyone to succeed and graduate in 4 years.</p>

<p>hmom5, and isn’t it ironic that the people being accepted to HYPS are those who have clearly demonstrated that they are disciplined and can prioritize? Sad state of affairs, really.</p>

<p>Main thing with a child (like my older daughter) who fits this profile is to let them know that anything is possible. It depends on them entirely and whether they choose to discipline themselves or not. Also, to make sure they know that there is no inkling of disappointment coming from parents, unless they really fall apart, of course. Yes, the most essential element is the attempt, and actually the world is wide open for whatever talent they bring.</p>

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<p>I hope your sarcasm was meant in jest, because hmom5 clearly wasn’t suggesting that undisciplined students deserve admission to HYPS over disciplined ones, only that they might do better at HYPS if they were admitted.</p>

<p>I guess what I’m really saying is that if it’s feasible, I’d strongly consider LACs for many of these kids. If the issue has been discipline, they would probably do better in a more nurturing environment with profs and advisors who will notice and address issues before it’s too late.</p>

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In fact at the ND info session S2 attended, they put enormous emphasis on the fact that it is difficult to be admitted, but very easy to stay and graduate because of the individual attention and services available to all students.</p>

<p>IDK, I’ve never heard that hand-holding and individualized attention is really Harvard’s cup of tea. I’ve just heard about huge lecture classes in the intro courses.</p>

<p>As someone above pointed out, they don’t accept kids with discipline problems. Many very good LACs will accept a high scoring kid with a few issues.</p>

<p>^ Sorry if this sounds like splitting hair, but how good are “very good LACs”? Any examples?</p>

<p>You’ve sort of alluded to this before, PCP – for some reason, you put top 20 universities on a different and higher plane than top 20 LAC’s in terms of quality of education. I am totally not sure why you are making this distinction. LAC’s are more “boutiquey” and less known by the general population, but that doesn’t mean they can’t offer just as high a quality of education.</p>

<p>It’s rather like deciding what are the nicest vacation spots, and looking only at well-known chain hotels and deciding that the Ritz or the Four Seasons is necessarily better than the boutique hotel fewer people know about, just because we’ve all heard about the Ritz and the Four Seasons.</p>

<p>A school like Colgate was just ranked as having one of the highest starting salary of its graduates. It has great alumni network. Great science, math, econ, and humanities. They even have a good engineering program (3-2 with Columbia and various other schools). An LAC like Colgate is worth a look by students in this category.</p>

<p>^^ Pizzagirl - I wasn’t trying to imply the good LAC’s are not good enough in my last post. I was hoping to see examples of “very good LACs” that fit the description of hmom5’s last post.</p>

<p>Yes. I did write before that I believe the elite unis have higher caliber kids on average than that of the elite LAC’s, but I’m willing to be convinced otherwise; however, I never said or implied that T20 unis would offer higher quality of education over the T20 LAC’s.</p>

<p>Many factors come to play when you talk about “quality of education”, caliber of peers is but one factor and, in my opinion, it is certainly not the most important one.</p>

<p>Mantori.suzuki: I would be less concerned about a motivated kid with time management issues, then a kid that his not really motivated by grades. If you son wants to excel at a top college and is willing and able to get help when needed, he will probably do fine. Time management can be learned - motivation not so much. </p>

<p>There is very limited nuturing at most colleges. Professors may be willing and able to help, but the students generally have to seek them out.</p>

<p>Will a great essay from a kid who fits the profile here, causes adcoms to assume that it is not written by the applicant?</p>

<p>I was thinking about creating a separate thread for this question, but I think it has more significance in our context here.</p>

<p>DS1 is a good writer. I was very impressed with the drafts he showed me. They were good, and some were really good (imho, of course), and I’m sure with more time, he’ll make them even better. After praising him a few times, it dawned on me that this may be a potential problem.</p>

<p>What do the parents here think? If there are any GC’s or adcoms reading this thread, please comment on this. Am I just being paranoid?</p>

<p>Well, what evidence will there be in his application, other than the essays, that he is a good writer? Recommendation from an English teacher? Publications of his writing in the school paper or literary magazine? Writing contests?
I should say that I’m a skeptic when it comes to essays–I can’t believe that adcoms are particularly impressed by a well-written essay, because, as you suggest, they can’t see how it was created. I think they may be impressed by the content of the essay, if it reveals something important and interesting about the applicant that doesn’t appear elsewhere in the application.</p>

<p>They can compare it to writing scores on the SAT?</p>

<p>…compare it to AP English Lang/Lit scores…</p>

<p>but regarding the SAT Writing scores, that actually poses a question. In superscoring, would a college look at a 74/12 essay or an 80/8 essay (both = 790) as the superior score? Obviously, this is splitting hairs, but I’d kind of rather they see the 12 essay than the perfect MC.</p>

<p>A humanities/social studies teacher could also attest to a student’s writing, at least for the hum/sosc classes S2 takes. They are almost ALL writing – no MC!</p>

<p>I don’t think the SAT writing score shows much of anything. My older son writes fine (5’s on the history AP, A’s on college papers in both history and expository writing), but had essay scores of 7 and 9.</p>