<p>Interestingly, ds received a piece of mail this week from a well-known private uni that listed the middle 50% out of a 2400 range, so apparently some schools are starting to look at it.</p>
<p>CD, personally I find the 74/12 more impressive as the essay is so subjective that to have two readers rate it tops is a quite an accomplishment.</p>
<p>YDS, the topic was smack up his alley, he wrote about current events and came out knowing he nailed it. For a kid with a writing LD who had extended time til HS, this was a HUGE deal.</p>
<p>And, in a luscious twist of irony, it was TWO paragraphs. The 74/12 was on his first SAT; the higher CR/W were on the second.</p>
<p>I can relate my story as a parent and a former applicant. I was rejected by Harvard way back in 1974 when they accepted around 18%. It still bugs me. I was so sure I would be accepted I only applied to two schools Harvard and UCSD. I had one B, was top 2% at good school, NMSF, top 1% SATs, reasonable but not superlative ECs. I passed 5 APs which was pretty rare in those days. After my PSAT score, a Princeton alum called and interviewed me, and encouraged me to apply, but I was so sure I would get into H I didnt bother.</p>
<p>At least I applied to one other school. In those days, everybody from Cali who was UC eligible could pick where they wanted to go, so it was basically a safety. UCSD was great, and I got a great education and career, but my rejection bothered me horribly for a long time. But what would have probably been worse would have been not trying at all. Truthfully, I probably couldnt have gotten into Princeton or any of the higher up Ivys, but I might have been able to squeak by in a place like Cornell, and it bothers me that I didnt even try. </p>
<p>This sounds a little like bragging, so forgive me for that. In truth, when I read some of these profiles on here I am amazed at the quality of students these days and not just the tippy top kids. In all likelihood my own kid will probably be heading to community college and we are all fine with that. He’s a nice kid, but needs a little maturing, so I think it’s a good place for him.</p>
<p>The point of all this? Bottom line is that you are not going to be able to shield your kid from disappointment either way, so why not apply to one big reach? Just so long as they understand the odds. My 2 cents.</p>
<p>That’s the key point: we parents who attended Ivys in the 80s (or earlier in my case) simply do not ‘get’ how difficult admissions has become. It is clearly and totally a roll of the dice for all but a very, very select few - and even amoung those, the decisions can and do seem completely arbitrary at times. I clearly made the mistake with DS1 - I concluded that a 3.9 GPA, and a 1400+ CR and M SAT with SATII in the 700s meant he would go to a ‘top’ school - and encouraged his aspirations. In retrospect, I should have better prepared him for disappointment - and I did not. I am not sure that the fallout is complete yet - though he has settled into an honors program at a state school that was his super safety - grade wise and finance wise. Temper expectations - because it just is not the same world as it was years ago…</p>
<p>DS1 don’t have any writing awards and has no desire to take the English AP’s. Worst yet, some of his B’s were in English! The only supportive but stretchy evidence is that he did well on the SAT writing section. May be I’m the only one thinking highly of his essays due to my own deficiency in writing…</p>
<p>What I was getting at is that I would have no qualms about his essays if they were meant for an essay contest, but he is not in one (or is he??). Should he perhaps tone down his writing so that the focus is strictly on the content?</p>
<p>Bovertine – thanks for the support.</p>
<p>anothermom3 - thanks for the advice.</p>
<p>I think it’s pretty cool how the massive financial-aid initiatives by top colleges has worked exactly as planned. They are truly getting the best of the best, regardless of income, and naturally that has made admissions tons more competitive.</p>
<p>This makes me feel better about knowing that my son will probably be rejected by the very best schools he applies to. Sure, he’s unlikely to get in, but back in the years when he could have gotten in easily, he also wouldn’t have applied due to the cost. So it all evens out.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Seems to me now you’re out-thinking yourself. Should he tone his writing down to the level of someone who’s “only” a 3.6? What level is that exactly? And wouldn’t toning his writing down only reinforce the fact that “he’s just a 3.6”?</p>
<p>Personally, and especially after reading hmom5’s post about ECs, I’m skeptical about how much of an impact essays truly have in the process. but if your S’s skills are in writing, then I say, damn the torpedos, full speed ahead. Remember, you’re playing a long shot and you’re trying to show that he belongs at this level. Might an adcom dismiss his essay as too slick? Sure, but if he happens to survive the first screen that essay may be the only thing that keeps him in the game. You’ve got nothing to lose, I wouldn’t hamstring him by encouraging him to dumb down his essay.</p>
<p>PCP - fwiw, my S is (if I say so myself) a very good writer. He has a very distinctive “voice,” is clever with words, yet he works hard for his A’s in English and doesn’t always get them. The ability to write about the use of foreshadowing and symbolism in a play is a very different ability from the ability to write about a personal event, if that makes sense. I wouldn’t overthink it.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>My problem right now is that MY mother doesn’t understand that, LOL. She keeps thinking I’m selling my kids short because “well, you had good grades and you got in everywhere you applied” (in my case, 3 schools that are in today’s top 15, including one Ivy, and a school that is the 20-25 range). Well, yeah, it’s a different world today. Sigh.</p>
<p>Speaking of, what <em>were</em> admission rates to top schools back in the 80’s or so?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Wow, I love the resolute gallantry here! Thanks vinceh.</p>
<p>For those of us who need to brace ourselves for the multiple rejections in the months ahead, here is an excellent consolation and encouragement piece I discovered on CC.</p>
<p>[To</a> Those Who Received Rejection Letters](<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/671910-those-who-received-rejection-letters.html]To”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/671910-those-who-received-rejection-letters.html)</p>
<p>I agree with Bovertine- the only way to avoid disappointment in anything is to either not try, or win every time. What a philosophy to teach your kids! Much better to prepare them for and teach them how to deal with disappointment and even injustice, which will come into their lives inevitably. When I think of the opportunities that have come my way in life, that no one thought had a snowball’s chance of happening, I feel sorry for kids who don’t apply to a reach school because they probably won’t get in.</p>
<p>And so far as writing essays goes, I too have wondered about the assumption that “daddy did it” (as one adcom put it). It irritates me when I read over and over the comment, ‘we see so many essays, it is easy for us to tell when it wasn’t written by the student’. Really? I have read some pretty amazing stuff by kids. And it isn’t as if the kid gets a chance to defend themselves, the app is just tossed into the no file.</p>
<p>For my two sons and two nephews I told them the formula is: 2 - Safeties, 4 - Matches, 3 - Reaches. If they’ve done good research, they’ll get into both safeties, 3 matches and 1 reach. Six out of nine. It’s been pretty accurate for the first three, hopefully it will work for the last one. </p>
<p>It’s all about managing expectations. If you plan on striking out three times it’s not devastating if you lose four times and it’s a nice surprise if you only drop two.</p>
<p>Agree that a B in English doesn’t necessarily mean a student can’t write. S2 gets Bs in English, but is a wonderful writer. IB’s close critical analysis and beating every literary work senseless is a different skill set. Ask his Extended Essay or history teacher about his writing and you’d get raves. Ask my friend who teaches college English who looked at one of S’s essays last year and said she would have given S a B+/A-. The IB teacher gave him a D. (No grammatical errors. No faulty analysis. Cannot tell the difference between it and the next essay, which got a B+.)</p>
<p>On the other hand, he is more than prepared for the level of analysis required by UChicago in their Core courses, having seen what constitutes A-/B+ work in same from his brother.</p>
<p>What I keep coming back to is this: the GPA must be considered in the context of the school, the academic opportunities that are available, the level of the “competition” if you will, and the degree of difficulty to which the courses are taught. I firmly believe that the extraordinary quality of the education S has undertaken will be borne out come April.</p>
<p>As S2 put it, “This IB program doesn’t guarantee you’ll get you into the Ivy League. But it damn well will give you the tools and ability to succeed there if that’s what you choose.”</p>
<p>Agree w/above not to overthink this one – do NOT tone back essays. They are one of your student’s most effective weapons. </p>
<p>DH got into Wharton in 1979. 1500 CR/M (old scale), 800/800/800 Math II, Chem, Physics, 90 average from selective NYC HS. Speech/Debate, Math Team, editor of Math Bulletin. Self-admitted slacker. He thinks acceptance rates at Penn were in the 30s back then. Also accepted at Northwestern and SUNY Albany, rejected at H.</p>
<p>Me: Same timeframe, 1300 CR/M, 670 USH, 500 Math I (!!!), ranked 10/300, LOTS of activities, awards and leadership. 2 APs self-study (our HS didn’t even offer them), 1-2 additional self-study correspondence courses every semester. Accepted at in-state southern flagship and Duke. Should have aimed higher, but I knew noone who knew what an Ivy was!</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Ain’t that the truth! I got a 5 on the AP English Language & Composition exam umpteen years ago because I can analyze like a monster and have the mechanics down pat. But my attempts at creative writing come out stilted and cliched. That is, I struggle with style. I don’t know about IB, but AP definitely favors analysis and mechanics over style.</p>
<p>I had a long discussion with my wife about this last night. She asked me to read one of her papers, and all I could see were numerous errors of punctuation. She was kind of miffed but persisted in pushing me to ignore that and focus on the substance. I ended up finding that she had written something really insightful and expressive, but it was all I could do to get past the mechanics and appreciate the style.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Got in Wharton in 1982! 1420 (old scale), 730/730/750 on SAT II’s, 4.3 GPA, various clubs but no leadership position beyond secretary (!!), part-time job, and basic teacher’s pet, LOL. And this is the kicker - I deliberately didn’t submit an essay because I was trying to torpedo my own app, and still got accepted. LOL.</p>
<p>^Should have written an essay…</p>
<p>I think my hook was that I was from a high school in Missouri! </p>
<p>BTW, diff question. I know the 3.6 we’re all talking about here is unweighted. My kids’ school only reports weighting (A in honors or AP is 5.0 on a 4.0 scale, etc.) and uses weighting for rank as well (I know, I know, the better schools don’t rank). They include all classes, including PE, art, etc. So I have to hand calculate their UW GPA’s to know what they are. Should I exclude PE? Other classes that they’ve had to take for distribution requirements (acting, business, consumer ed, photography, etc.)? On the Naviance (just got access to!), I assume that they are including all classes in the unweighted GPA just as they do for weighted GPA.</p>
<p>
Adcoms always say this, but I don’t believe it. First of all, how would they really know? Maybe there are a few essays with telltale anachronisms, but I don’t believe that any essay is “too good” for a high school student to have written it.</p>
<p>The highest quality college essays are written in an authentic voice and present non-bs refreshing insights into the student’s character, revealing some unique quality or experience that shows (not tells) the adcoms what really makes the kid tick. Parents sometimes mistake a grammatically correct essay written with a mature vocabulary as being “great.” The SAT essay and AP English grades and scores will display a student’s expertise with analytical writing, but the college essay is meant to do more.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t worry about an essay sounding “too good” if by that you mean a truly remarkable exposure of a kid’s honest dreams and feelings.</p>