<p>That is the definition 95% of the country actually cares or knows about.</p>
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<p>Funny, CountingDown! I hope my kid doesn’t make the mistake of choosing a crappy school like UC Davis over a powerhouse like Boise State. :D</p>
<p>Visited my son yesterday at school. Unfortunately, he’s frazzled as usual because he’s either behind or just barely keeping up in his classes. And that, in turn, is a result of his having too many ECs. Not the kind where he can just show up, have fun, and then go back to studying. No, he has to choose ECs that require hours and hours of project work, like Model UN.</p>
<p>Not asking for advice, just venting a little. I know he’ll be fine, but I did tell him it’s time to cut out an EC or two, at least until he’s caught up.</p>
<p>The good news is that he has finished another college application. The first one was just a basic application, but this one requires an essay, and he has finished it! He’s just asking his English teacher for a critique before he sends it in. Woohoo! (He has told me what it’s about but has not asked me to read it. Since he asked me to review the rest of the application, I assume his essay is of some personal nature that he doesn’t want my input on, which is fine with me. I’m just glad he has written it.)</p>
<p>This will make two rolling-admissions applications completed. Next stop: Two top-20 Early Action applications, due on November 1.</p>
<p>m.s - I don’t think that “dabbling” in theater would be much of a plus for any college, or even for a non-artsy tech school. It does show that he has some non-techy interests, but it does not appear to be a “passion”, or even close to one. I would <em>not</em> recommend that he use it as the focus of any essay, unless (1) it is a short answer question and (2) the school actually has a theater EC (and then he should see if it is a drama theater or a musical theater because it sounds like most of his experience is in musical theater). He really should be focusing on his primary interest ECs. BTW - while Model UN is not artsy, it is not really techy either.</p>
<p>Kudos to your S for completing TWO apps! </p>
<p>Still no completed apps from my DS1. He is making progress toward some EA apps. Not as fast as I’d like to see, but a lot better than what I was really afraid of ;). Our goal is no last minute completion. He’s up for two SAT subject tests this Saturday, so I don’t expect much progress on the apps this week.</p>
<p>Btw, he is applying to Oxford. It is a late addition to the list, and the admission criteria seem like a good match for kids with high scores and low GPA’s. Oxford does not even require his high school transcript for selection decision. One interesting fact - Oxford does break down acceptance rate by major. </p>
<p>Any advice from folks who are familiar with the Oxford admissions process?</p>
<p>^^^How can they evaluate someone without their academic records, or even a list of the classes they took? I mean, I do well on standardized tests, even taught them for a while, but I couldn’t judge anyone based on their SAT and AP alone.</p>
<p>Many countries have different process than ours. In some countries, one comprehensive entrance exam is all that matters. Apparently, Oxford admissions is only interested in the applicant’s academic potential in the applied field of interest. Very different from what we have here.</p>
<p>^^^How does Oxford judge that? Do they have their own entrance exams as well? I’m intrigued - I think I’ll Google it. IMHO College Board exams are too easily tweaked by preparatory courses and such.</p>
<p>
[Entrance</a> Requirements - University of Oxford](<a href=“http://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate_courses/courses/courses_and_entrance_requirements/index.html]Entrance”>http://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate_courses/courses/courses_and_entrance_requirements/index.html)</p>
<p>^^^To me that looks like they care about high school grades.</p>
<p>CrewDad, I saw the “excellent High School record” part, but we couldn’t find a place to report the grades or the transcript, so we emailed Oxford admissions and got the following response.</p>
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</p>
<p>So it looks like the transcript is required once you are admitted as a proof of completion of secondary schooling, similar to how domestic colleges see the last semester senior year grades.</p>
<p>^^^“Achieved or predicted”??? I think they are going to care about the grades. Just my opinion.</p>
<p>Obviously, the scores can’t be all “predicted” at this point. I believe by now all qualified US applicants have “achieved” scores in SAT, at least some SAT II’s, and some AP’s. From what I read so far, it is unlikely for an applicant to move forward without having at least couple 5’s on the AP’s and couple 700+ on the SAT II’s.</p>
<p>Anyway, I didn’t mean to derail this thread into a discussion on Oxford admissions. However, I would like to hear from folks who know something about Oxford admissions any advice they may have for my DS1. You can PM me.</p>
<p>CrewDad, good luck to you D too.</p>
<p>Back to our regularly scheduled programming…</p>
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<p>I realize that. It’s posted on their webpage [How</a> to apply - University of Oxford](<a href=“http://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate_courses/how_to_apply/index.html]How”>http://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate_courses/how_to_apply/index.html)</p>
<p>See step #5
</p>
<p>A British acquaintance of mine is an Oxford alum and raves about the education and town. My daughter is also interested in the college, as she’s enamored with England. But visiting on vacations isn’t the same as attending college across the pond. We’ll see.</p>
<p>Let’s hope the exchange rate improves. </p>
<p>Good luck to your son.</p>
<p>…re applications to Oxford: class grades (ie GPA) are meaningless in this context. UK admissions are based on public exam grades (GCSEs, A/S, A2 here, SATs, APs, IB grades coming from the US system), the candidate’s personal statement, reference and - all important for Oxbridge - the interview. This is a substantive, academic interview which here in the UK can be conducted over a period of days. There is a lot of info for US applicants not only on these boards but on the UK equivalent: the student room.</p>
<p>Forgot to say that there may also be a subject-specific entrance exam (eg the HAT - history aptitude test) and that the application deadline for 2010 matriculation is next week.</p>
<p>^^^^Okay, I stand corrected, although I’m still not sure how they conduct this thorough academic evaluation, and exactly what is included in the personal statement. I stand by my belief that US multiple choice exams are not the best criteria for evaluating admissions to any school in a vacuum. But I also agree that neither are high school grades a perfect indicator. So I’m assuming they take into account research based ECs and things such as that, along with things they may be able to discern from an extensive interview.</p>
<p>Oxford may be a good fit for a student with B+ grades but very high test scores and no need for financial aid. The regular US/state diploma is required, but not sufficient for admission. If you don’t do the full IB diploma, you do have to get straight 700’s on one sitting of the SAT (it is not OK to have 700 CR on one test date and 700 math on another) and have at least 3 (5s) on AP exams or 6/7 on IB exams (SLs are ok but eventually you need 5s on your HLs especially your language and area of study. The SATs and APS are just the first hurdle. THEY DO NOT CARE ABOUT ECs AT ALL! Admissions is only determined by academic criteria using standardized tests–the US diploma and grades are considered too inconsistent to count for much. If you pass the testing hurdle, you apply either through a particular college or through the university (less common). Certain colleges take certain majors. Way back in 1980, I was accepted at Oxford when they didn’t generally accept US high school diplomas but on the condition that I do one year at a US college and then transfer to do a 3 year degree in Classics (Latin and Greek). I only had 2 ap classes (all that was offered at my high school) and I did not take SAT subject test. However, at the time, Oxford was much more expensive than Duke (quite the reverse now) and I had a lot of financial aid so I stayed at Duke (and did Not read classics). Remember, US system is much more flexible if you change your major. UK is now desperate to have a good chunk of foreigners paying full freight (no UK student pays full freight) so you have a good chance to get in if you can jump all of the testing hurdles and flyover for an entrance exam and interview. Keep in mind that there are many other UK universities in top division that set a lower test bar, but the interview/entrance exam still is relevant. Look at some good universities like Leeds, Bristol, St. Andrews, Edinborough…you may be surprised. Oxford is a wonderful city but it is sometimes hard being a foreigner (I am British but with US accent) and don’t expect to be welcomed into the undergraduate community of English prep (public) school undergrads who still make up a significant portion of the undergrads. My father and my mother’s father were both scholarship kids to Oxbridge colleges from very poor homes, went on to get PhDs and become very successful in their fields but they never formed friendships with any students except other scholarship kids with working class accents. It is nothing like US melting pot undergraduate experience. Class boundaries, racism are still an issue there and I do wonder how my URM son (hispanic but will be taken for Pakistani with his olive skin and black eyes) will be treated. Oh…legacy only counts for the colleges, and then only very slightly, but means nothing if your kid applies to a different college than the relative. Being Brit living in the US is not a help…it works just like OOS.if you aren’t a tax-paying resident you are a foreigner. Seems fair to me.</p>
<p>Oh yes…my grandpa was a Physics don at Oxford. He often set the questions for the physics entrance exam. He would torture me during my summer vacations when I visited from the States by making me take the exams to demonstrate how awful US education was. I always failed but they were always sexist and class-based. I particularly remember one question: </p>
<p>"Describe the motion of a cricket ball, what determines the curve of the trajectory? </p>
<p>Later I was the ONLY grandchild to get a PhD, but he pointed out it was in a useless field…economics. I hope that my grandad’s style of education has disappeared at Oxford and other UK universities, but I am sure there are still some hold overs. </p>
<p>Now…I admit that my US high school education was terrible…half the teachers at my school were functionally illiterate but it did make me tough and resilient and I thrived at a really good US university after the initial shock of academic rigor. I think the US experience of a varied basic education is really good for 90% of the kids but the Oxbridge/UK system of focusing early on a particular subject matter is only a good fit for the very few who have found their passion and are ready to dive into it with little structure or guidance. You do not need to attend lectures for 3 years and the outcome depends entirely on the exams at the end of 3 years. My father basically drank and womanized for 2 years and pulled off a miracle at the end…</p>
<p>Re: letters of recommendation</p>
<p>We briefly touched upon the risk these black boxes pose to our kids upthread. I’d like to bring up another aspect of LOR’s.</p>
<p>Since my DS1 took many full-credit college classes, he felt there are couple prof’s who would give him excellent recommendations. Admissions literature and websites are mum on whether a LOR from a prof can substitute a required LOR from a high school teacher, and in general (there are exceptions) whether you can send in additional LOR’s. We also wanted to find out what classes qualify as English/social science/humanities for colleges that require at least one LOR from a non science/math teacher. So I called/emailed admissions offices.</p>
<p>I didn’t know I was in for a big surprise. For many colleges, I got different answers from different reps of the same college! I discovered this by accident. I had to call a college again because my notes from the last call wasn’t too clear to me. The second answer I got was completely different from what I can make out of my notes. When I told the rep that I was given a different response before, she stuttered… The horror didn’t stop here. I called another college three times and received three different answers 
. On the third try, at least the rep was professional enough to transfer me to a “higher authority”.</p>
<p>Here are my lessons learned: If you have to call admissions for an answer, make sure you call at least two different reps and see if their answers match before you act on the advice. Never take for granted that the admissions rep on the phone knows more than you on the topic of your inquiry, especially after you’ve studied the admissions website..</p>