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One point is being missed: LACs produce BS/BA graduates who later earn PhDs at a significantly higher percentage rate than do the large research universities (where these LAC graduates shine).
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<p>Oh… I can give you a good example- you interpret as you like. We all know brown is the most LACish type school in ivies. Many many brown graduates join peace corps or non-profit organizations ( I don’t know why, I can only guess :) ) After that, most of them are living off of his dad and mom **cuz they couldn’t get a job<a href="maybe%20they%20didn’t%20get%20an%20updated,%20state-of-the-art%20undergrad%20education,%20I%20donno">/b</a>… then go for graduate schools (again, I can only guess why :) ). Yeah they got PhDs all right from very notable depts.. like art history, ocean science, zoology… In other words, they get educated beyond their intelligence.</p>
<p>My take on LAC’s producing many PhDs wouldn’t be too far off from my brown example… Think Hard :)</p>
<p>Sakky, with all due respect, your math is full of errors. When you state Q=A*B, you are implying A, B must be greater than zero. By simple physics, the length of a rectangle cannot be zero. So if A approaches /inf and B is non-zero, you will get huge Q. :)</p>
<p>So your point, Rabban, is that Brown (and LAC) graduates are too uneducated to get jobs, so then they go on to top graduate programs? I'm really not understanding your point.
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then go for graduate schools (again, I can only guess why ).
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What does that even mean? Do Berkeley graduates not have to go to graduate school?</p>
<p>Rabban,
1) Graduate schools make research essentially a requirement for admission or fellowships
2) LACs do quite well in sending students to graduate school</p>
<p>Going by your reasoning, a) graduate schools are either stupid or inconsistent in admitting LAC graduates without superb research backgrounds or b) LACs provide good research opportunities. </p>
<p>This year Caltech had three MIT grads receive doctorates. Another two did their undergrad at Swarthmore. With 4000+ students, most of whom are majoring in science/engineering, MIT graduates far more science grads than Swarthmore (1100 students, many of whom study humanities). Yet they're practically equal in PhD production at one of the "world-class" universities you named. Berkeley only produced four. </p>
<p>Taking another LAC as an example, over 40% of Harvey Mudd graduates go on to earn a PhD- at institutions like Caltech, Carnegie Mellon, Cornell, Dartmouth, Harvard, Johns Hopkins, MIT, Princeton, Stanford, UC Berkeley, UCLA, USC, the University of Texas at Austin, and Yale, no less.</p>
<p>not quite yet, but i can give you good reminder that you can cherish for the rest of your life.. that can remind ** you of the hefty price of your quick, but reckless **</p>
<p>kemet: your point's well taken. Like i said, some students excel at LACish, other students excel at big research university. But there is a big advantage in attending big research-oriented university</p>
<p>"But there is a big advantage in attending big research-oriented university"</p>
<p>Do you simply believe this, or can you show outcome data to back it up? The LAC proponents keep citing data; surely the WCU proponents can cite some.</p>
<p>Yes, way to counter my points, Rabban. I still can't see how you've been "pwning" LACish schools. How does the fact that a person goes to a top graduate school show that their undergraduate education was sub-par? Does that not reflect well on their undergraduate school?</p>
<p>(Note: I tried to post this earlier, but CC died on me)</p>
<p>Rabban, those rankings you posted are irrelevant. They in no way comment on the success of students coming from particular undergraduate schools.</p>
<p>Rabban, I went a "world-class university," and I suggest that you go to a liberal arts college. Anyone who puts faith in the Times Higher Education Supplement "data," really ought to attend an institution with excellent teaching... :)</p>
<p>Dorian: With all due respect, i must disagree. The co-location of great graduate school and undergrad college gives so much edges than LACish.</p>
<p>I talked about science/eng programs in my previous post.</p>
<p>How do you think the effect of Harvard Medical School on pre-med students opportunity, in terms of research opportunity, interships, and hearing/participating various life science lectures/seminars hosted by H med schools?</p>
<p>Rabban, you're arguing based on pure conjecture. You have as of yet come up with no relevant data. Plus, I don't think the research opportunities at "world-class" universities are necessarily better than at LAC-type schools. While I obviously can't comment based on personal experience, I've been told that preference goes to graduate students for research at graduate-focused universities, while this is not much of a problem at more undergraduate-based schools.</p>
<p>In the same vein, Columbia's graduate school hosted Invited Guest Lecture Series on Politics & Law on columbia undergrad major in political science?</p>
<p>Yes, when all is said and done, when the rubber meets the road, when all dust's settled, and when the thrill is gone, only WCU remains, and it will continue toward the new millenium.</p>
<p>I went to Dartmouth and the effect of Tuck had ZERO impact on my college experience. My friends who went to HARVARD medical school and places like it didn't do research at Dartmouth med school, they all did their thesis work with undergrad focused professors on topics like crayfish limb regeneration, but work like this is what got them the recs and the interview/ essay discussion topics to give them the edge at the top med schools.</p>
<p>As an MBA at Columbia, I never had any work with undergrads, maybe just people sneaking into Uris cafeteria. </p>
<p>You WAY overvalue the impact of grad students. At the undergrad level its undergrad research money, closeness with professors, and thesis/ culminating seminar work that gives students at the LACs and places like Princeton, Brown, and Dartmouth such an edge when it comes time for grad school. AND these schools also are among the top 7 the most heavily recruited when it comes to elite firm recruiting.</p>
<p>Rabban in my book your views shout inexperience with the top LACy schools.</p>