<p>Having just dealt with the college decision of my daughter, we will be facing the same again next year as my son will be a senior this year and wants to apply to the same universities as his sister. Before he does that, wanted to ask you guys if guaranteed med programs are really all that they are hyped up to be (my dd is going to one) and if it is really that hard to get into medical school after a regular undergrad degree if you have all the requirements like GPA, volunteer work, etc? Or is it truly a shot in the dark as some unsuccessful applicants tell me?</p>
<p>I think it's somewhere in between. If someone doesn't get into medical school, it's kind of rare, I think, for that person not to know what kept them out, even if they're not saying what it is. Unfortunately, it's entirely possible that what kept them out was a bad interview (or bad interview skills), over which you don't have a whole lot of control. And so there are always people who have great GPAs, do volunteer work, have great MCATs, do research, etc. who don't get into medical school.</p>
<p>I'm afraid that I can't really talk about the BA/MD programs and the guaranteed acceptance med. programs. I can certainly see why some students want to do them, and I see why some don't.</p>
<p>ginnyvere, what do you think are some of the reasons students choose to do the ba/md programs or not?</p>
<p>Some of the obvious reasons for doing it are as follows:
[ul]
[<em>]of course, guaranteed acceptance
[</em>]no need to take the MCAT (in some cases)
[<em>]absolute certainty that the student wants to go to medical school.
[/ul]
Some reasons not to do a BA/MD program are:
[ul]
[li]the student isn't certain that he/she wants to go to medical school[/li][</em>]the student might want to pursue a combination degree (MD/PhD, MD/MBA, MD/MPH, etc).
[<em>]the student wants to go to an undergraduate school that doesn't have a BA/MD program (personally, though I didn't apply to any BA/MD programs, if I had, I still would've taken my merit scholarship offer at the institution that I ended up attending over acceptance into a BA/MD program)
[</em>]the student wants to go to a medical school that doesn't have a combination BA/MD program (if you're lucky and your state school has a combination program, that's one thing, but financially it's often hard to commit to four years of undergraduate and then four years of medical school at a private school or an out of state public school)
[/ul]</p>
<p>Also, I would imagine that some of the programs (specifically the ones that end up taking six or seven years rather than eight) might have restrictions (written or practical) on what a student can major in and whether or not a student has time to do things like spend a semester abroad.</p>
<p>I have found that students in BA/MD programs are often doing it for the wrong reasons, mostly because of parental pressure/family obligations. I feel like many high schoolers do not think for themselves and do not have enough exposure to the medical world to really know that they want to become doctors for the rest of their lives. Of course, some do and guaranteed programs are an excellent way to achieve their goals. It's just scary sometimes that some of my peers in these programs are going to be doctors when they really shouldn't.</p>
<p>Thanks, Ginnyvere (and My Ashes). One more quick ques. Does it matter if the BA/MD is not at a ranked (for undergrad) school vs. the regular program at a ranked undergrad school? What if you had full rides to both places?</p>
<p>the question is what is your overarching goal as a physician?
Is it to just be a doctor and open your own clinic?
or maybe you might want to become a research physician or work at NIH, CDC, or even run a hospital. I think being in a BA/MD or BA/DO locks you in too early. There are so many options that you can do as a physician. I think the option of pursuing a combination degree (MD/PhD, MD/MBA, MD/MPH, etc) is the main reason why to not do combined med programs. However, your second option can be to go to a Ba/MD and if you do really well, leave the program and apply traditionally. Only thing to watch out for is to make sure you will be happy at the undergrad institution for 4 years.</p>
<p>There is one overlooked reason to be in combined program. My D. is in one also. These programs admit very high caliber students because of great competition. To be part of such group is very rewarding.</p>
<p>But MiamiDAP, if a student is able to be admitted into a competitive program like BA/MD, one could argue that they would have found themselves part of a high caliber group no matter where they ended up. Either in an honors college, or as a merit scholarship recipient, or receiving an undergraduate research fellowship... the list goes on. Even "regular" students who are able to excel at the pre-med requirements at any school can consider themselves part of a high-achieving group.</p>
<p>Some schools, like NEOUCOM in Ohio, have requirements for "guaranteed admission" to the Med School that wouldn't get most applicants into most, if any regular medical school unless they were a URM.</p>
<p>From their website:</p>
<p>"You must meet one of the two following options for promotion in order to obtain your reserved seat in the program. </p>
<p>Option 1:
-3.25 overall grade-point average in undergraduate coursework</p>
<p>-3.20 grade-point average in Biology, Chemistry, Physics, Math (BCPM)</p>
<p>-MCAT score of 8 or higher in each subtest on the most recent test</p>
<p>Option 2:
-3.50 overall grade-point average in undergraduate coursework</p>
<p>-3.50 grade point-average in Biology, Chemistry, Physics, Math (BCPM)</p>
<p>-MCAT composite score of at least 24 on the most recent test, with subtest scores of 8 or higher in two sections and no less than a 7 on the third</p>
<p>Both Options:
-Both options expect students to obtain grades of B or better in all Biology, Chemistry, Physics, Math (BCPM) coursework.</p>
<p>-Both options require students to pass all mandatory classes with a C- or better.</p>
<p>-Both options expect B.S./M.D. students to demonstrate an appropriate medical student level of integrity, self-awareness, interpersonal skills, commitment to excellence and responsibility for one's self</p>
<p>-Students must also meet the essential functions of the program and other requirements as outlined on the admissions application to the B.S./M.D. program and in the college catalog.</p>
<p>Throughout Phase I, students participate in a series of presentations by physicians on how to maintain scientific and humanistic perspectives of medicine as part of their lives. This aspect of the curriculum culminates with each student preparing and submitting a five-page capstone essay to be read and evaluated by NEOUCOM faculty to assess further the student's readiness for promotion."</p>
<p>I was perplexed when trying to figure out the difference in qualifying for Option 1 or Option 2 so I called the Admissions office and was told that the lower requirement (option 1) was given to those applying as an undergrad with a higher HS GPA and ACT/SAT scores, while the tougher undergrad requirements were for those applying to undergrad with lower HS GPA and test scores.</p>
<p>Kind of amazing....if you did well in high school you just need to maintain a 3.25 overall GPA and 3.2 science GPA with a 24 MCAT......hmmmmm......</p>
<p>NEOUCOM requirements sounds low only if you are not familiar with their program. They are loaded with credit hours, no summers off and they take MCAT in a summer after Freshman year. They appear to be streched to the limit and a lot of them still manage to get both GPA and MCAT higher than requirement, which is remarkable and they deserve all the credits. These are the people who decided that they want ACCELERATED program and they are pushing themselves hard.
Most other combined programs have higher requirements, but they are still lower than regular route. And in regard to being part of high caliber group, combined programs are much more selective than Honors, etc. For comparison, my D. school accepts 300 into Honors and 10 into combined medical program. The difference of level of competition is evident. The biggest benefit, still that if you meet reguirements, there is a spot for you at Med. School. However, about 50% in our program still apply out to have choices. However, they retain their spot.</p>
<p>I regret not accepting a guaranteed medschool program that I was accepted to. You don't need to take the mcats, as long as your gpa is above a 3.4.</p>
<p>The MCAT seems huge and difficult now, but not having to take it should not factor into a decision to do a combined program. You'll be taking standardized tests throughout your medical training, and even after you're done training. When you're preparing for Step 1 of the USMLE, do you really want your last experience with a major exam to have been the SAT or AP tests??</p>
<p>A lot of the combined programs do require MCAT, some do not and ALL of them require certain GPA to stay in a program. But requirements are definately lower than for undergrads applying to the med. school.</p>
<p>Maybe I should clarify my previous post. The school I got into required atleast a 3.4 and MCATs were not required.</p>
<p>^Sounds like a good deal! However, there is no point of getting frustrated over what could have been! Make the best out of what you have now, you are going to be fine!</p>