Asking in this forum because the plan is to apply for a PhD after graduating.
My son is a sophomore at UIUC (engineering) and doing research with a grad student. It is really with a grad student - the only time he met with the professor of that research group was a 5 minute interview before the program started. Is it normal for a big school? It is a university-wide program. I think the requirements to participate were good academic standing and finding a professor who is willing to take the student in his/her group. He is loving the subject and the work, but I’m not sure he thinks about the future that much, for example, how he would get a letter of recommendation. The program looks too formal to me, it’ll give him a line in the resume, but will it help with graduate admissions?
He has two years ahead and could graduate in one but will be taking grad level classes and continuing research for two. He could probably look for research with another group. It would be a different subject. How would that look? Is it worth trying? I’m worried because from my own experience I know that no communications with the professor is bad although I was in a different situation.
It is fairly normal at a large school. Sometimes as an undergrad gains experience in the lab, they get more contact with the PI. Is he planning to research in the summer? He could consider applying for REUs to get some summer experience in a different lab (although I think the REU deadlines for this year are mostly past now). Or if this prof can’t give him research funding this summer, maybe he could try another lab. If he is applying for PhD programs, some require 3 recommendations. My kid really benefitted from having experience in 2 labs (one not really in her area for grad school — but still good research experience).
I’d suggest he set up time to talk with the PI in the fall. Tell the PI that he is thinking of applying to
PhD programs after graduating, and ask advice on the process. A PI helping with the process is huge, and it will pave the way for asking for recommendations fall of senior year as well. Be sure your son checks out the PI’s website (most STEM profs have one) for any info on grad school apps, recommendations, etc before meeting with them.
Funding comes from the university research program if we can call it funding. It’s $500 per semester, and the mentor grad student also gets something from that program. If I were him, I would go for an unpaid position but I think it might not be allowed, and it could again be with a grad student.
IMO, if the research is in an area that he is interested in then its a good thing. I would not necessarily expect that he would gain instant access to a prof simply by joining in. However, if he makes strong contributions to the project he will see his visibility and access grow. My S joined a research group in his sophomore year too. He started off by contributing in some easier low-visibility tasks, but he was able to rapidly grow his responsibilities and visibility by his commitment to the project and his ability to actually contribute at a grad-level.
Is it fairly common. Sure. But at research universities, professors have wide latitude in how they run their research groups. Some are very hands-on, others only intervene as necessary, and everything in between.
Again, this is going to depend on the professor. Any of them would be willing to write a letter, but how good that letter is will depend on how close they keep tabs on the lab from afar. For example, they could be getting updates from their graduate students that include the progress of the undergrads, in which case they could still write a strong reference letter.
Generally speaking, this will cause the PI’s ears to perk up pretty quickly. We are always on the lookout for quality PhD students, as they are what really make our labs function.
Thank you all, this is very helpful.
It makes sense, joining a program doesn’t entitle him to the PI’s time, but but hopefully next fall after being with the lab the whole year and returning, he could try and ask for a short meeting with the PI. I’m not sure if the PI’s ears will perk up - statistically about 30% graduating students in that area (bio-related) go for a graduate degree so he might hear it all the time. But it’s good to know that it is ok to start that conversation.
It’s pretty normal, and if he’s a sophomore, the PI may not fully engage (or engage more) with undergrads until they are juniors or seniors. He can still learn a whole lot from that graduate student, especially if the graduate student is advanced. Unfortunately, mentoring and teaching undergraduates is very time-consuming and not professionally rewarding for PIs (although it can be personally rewarding).
Even at schools where a third of the department continues to graduate school, professors are still usually excited when strong students want to go, so I wouldn’t worry about that too much.
Often, graduate students will write the skeleton of the letter of recommendation, and the professor will polish it up and submit. This is often the best arrangement for an undergrad - they get a letter from someone who really knows them and their work, but they also get the signature and reputation of the professor behind it.
I agree with the comments made by the others but I wanted to add one thing. It is not a problem at all to work in more than one research group as an undergraduate. If there are other possibilities, the broadening experience can help him make a choice as to the kind of area he wants to pursue in his Ph.D.