<p>I'm looking for some parent advice for my college/career planning. </p>
<p>I feel very fortunate to have just had a few very excellent college offers. I was admitted to my state flagship's honors program (scholarship notification coming in March), Goucher College with a full tuition scholarship, Dickinson College with a 60k scholarship, and Swarthmore and am a finalist for a full-tuition scholarship (winning is VERY unlikely). In addition, I will be hearing back from Brandeis in about a week and for the situation's sake, let's just say that I get, ehh, 15k a year. </p>
<p>My ultimate career goal is to work in the either the state or national government in education reform/policy. For this reason, I think a law degree would be very beneficial for my career plans. </p>
<p>My parents have given me a great option where they are willing to pay ~200k for all of my educational expenses. So this means that if I get a good scholarship for undergrad, I will have a lot of money left over for law school. </p>
<p>At this point, however, Swarthmore is my first choice school. It has my undergrad major of Educational Studies (Brandeis is the only other school to offer this major) and has an social and academic climate I'm looking for. Assuming I don't receive the full-tuition scholarship, would it be incredibly stupid to pay 200k to go to Swat and then have to be 210k in debt after I graduate law school?</p>
<p>As parents and/or lawyers, what would you do? </p>
<p>I think Brandeis might be a good practical option though it's a lot farther away from home than the other schools.</p>
<p>Yes, it would be a huge mistake to spend the allotted amount on undergrad and then graduate law school with that much debt. This is particularly true since the area you are expressing interest is probably not particularly lucrative. I think the wise thing to do is to take one of the full scholarships and use the money for law school. Actually, what I would recommend is making a deal with your parents that you take the full scholarship and ask them to contribute $50k a year to a savings account for you. It will be incredibly freeing for you to graduate with no debt. It will be even more so if graduate with over $200k in the bank. I would look into following your career goal without law school. I do not believe a law degree is much of a boost for doing anything except practicing law. I never recommend that people spend money on law school unless you really want to practice. You may find that you want a graduate degree, but there are plenty of options that are less expensive and time consuming than law. I live just a few miles from Goucher and know several kids there very well. They love it there, and are getting excellent opportunities. The President of the college is very well liked and somehow seems to know every student by name. I attend functions on campus often and am always impressed.</p>
<p>I’m pretty uninformed so this is a legitimate question at least for me but don’t people who want to work in policy and legislation need law degrees?</p>
<p>Even if you wanted to be a lobbyist, you don’t need a law degree. Many lobbyists are lawyers, but there is no requirement. If you’re thinking about being a legislator, not being a lawyer is actually a positive thing right now. Arne Duncan is not a lawyer. Law school does not prepare you to practice law. You have to figure it out after you graduate. It certainly doesn’t prepare you to do other things.</p>
<p>My advice: go to the best possible undergraduate school (Swarthmore) and let grad school fall into place as you get closer to that point. Your post-grad plans/interests could change (even undergrad major plans frequently change) and if you end up going to law school, don’t assume that a pricey private law school is the only option. A demanding, prestigious undergraduate school on your resume means more than which law school you graduated from, provided you have an impessive law school record (Law Review, high GPA, clinics/internships in area of interest).</p>
<p>raiderade – Brandeis is a great school, too, but unless you get a whole lot of aid there, I’d still go with Swat. What you will learn as an undergrad at a school like that (or at Brandeis perhaps) will stand you in great stead down the line, whether it’s grad school or your career.</p>
<p>I agree with Royal that Swarthmore sounds like the best option, if you truly feel it’s the best overall fit for you as an undergrad. If you don’t care that much, then go to the best mix of good and inexpensive. As Royal said, your future plans may change. Swat offers good DC connections, I believe, so that might be where you end up going. If you continue to be interested in law, on the public interest side, there’s a decent chance that going to Swat and doing very well there will open up opportunities to go to some excellent law schools, and possibly get scholarships at that point. </p>
<p>And I firmly believe that there are great reasons to go to law school even if you don’t ever practice law.</p>
<p>Top law schools have greate loan forgiveness programs for the type of career interests you are describing. No one can decide for your family if paying full price for undergrad is “worth it”, but I have a feeling tha Swarthmore will be a great fit for you.</p>
<p>I too say go to Swarthmore. I see so many kids on this forum who are so convinced that they are going to do x, y or z. Reality is that MOST people change their minds. </p>
<p>Contrary to the popular wisdom on this board, I think your UG education is the most important. Worry about the next step when you get to the next step.</p>
<p>I agree generally that Swarthmore is a great choice, but don’t you dare borrow over $100k to go to law school after that. You really should not even consider that to be an option. If you spend the allotted money on undergrad, you will have to figure out something other than going into debt for law school. </p>
<p>However, I still say taking the full ride and pocketing the $200k is the best option.</p>
<p>For your goal of working in educational reform and public policy, I’d think it be better for you to consider getting a masters in education/Ed.D with a concentration in educational leadership or policy or a masters in public policy with a concentration in education issues rather than a degree in law. </p>
<p>Moreover, I’d be wary of majoring in anything related to “education” at the undergrad level for 2 reasons:</p>
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<li><p>You may change your mind about career paths at some point. I would not get so specialized at this point academically. Instead, seek out internships with NGOs or agencies dealing with education reform and public policy. </p></li>
<li><p>There’s a strong stigma about education schools/majors…especially at the undergrad level of being a haven for academically mediocre students. If you want to go into education, best to major in something you are interested in the arts & sciences and then do an M.Ed or an MPP at a well-respected grad program. </p></li>
</ol>
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<p>This is completely wrong from what I heard from every lawyer I’ve talked/worked with…including an uncle who has been practicing for 30+ years. The prestige/name of your law school always trumps one’s undergrad…and is critical to determining whether you’ll even be hired by most biglaw firms and many high profile public interest organizations. </p>
<p>If you graduate from a second-tier or lower law school and are not top 5-10% of graduating law class at least, even someone from HYP undergrad won’t have much of a chance for getting hired at such places. In fact, I know several graduating law students who graduated from HYP or peer undergrad schools who are scrambling to find any job right now because they attended a second/lower-tiered law school and/or are graduating below the top 5-10%. </p>
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<p>That may be true in terms of personal educational experience. However, that’s not how most people…especially potential employers perceive things when deciding to hire/not hire in fields where grad degrees are required/extremely helpful. In those cases, the perceived prestige/quality of the grad school often trumps one’s undergrad.</p>
<p>sacchi-raiderade is a finalist for one of the rare merit scholarships at Swarthmore which are given based on geography. If Swarthmore is naming raiderade as a finalist for that scholarship, he/she will be accepted to Swarthmore.</p>
<p>raiderade-I don’t think it’s a close call here if your parents are willing to pay for Swarthmore. You know that I am biased, though.
My current freshman at Swarthmore took one seminar class in that department first semester and absolutely LOVED the class which focused on the American educational system from a variety of perspectives.</p>
<p>raiderade- My advice will only make your decision about grad vs. law school more difficult. My son is an undergrad and currently plans to go to law school for a similar career choice. He also received mixed advice on the need for law school vs a master in poly sci or public policy. I guess the advice he is following right now is that a master may close some future career doors while a law degree may not be necessary, but more universal. He still has over a year before applying anywhere.</p>
<p>Most importantly, I think you should keep your options open. Many things can change between now and applying to grad or law schools. A strong undergrad experience will prepare you for whichever choice you make later.</p>
<p>I have to agree that a law degree is not necessary for this career path. I am a lawyer, and love practicing law. But I think the law schools are a bit of a racket at the moment. The argument that you should go to law school because you can do anything with a law degree is silly. Law school is tremendously expensive. Why rack up that expense if you don’t want to practice law? For those who know they want to practice law in a big law firm (a mighty hard way to make a living, particularly for those starting out now), my advice is go to the undergrad that gives you the best deal and where you think you will thrive, because that will help you get into the best law school and graduate with the least amount of debt. When I hire a young lawyer, I look to see if they did well in their undergrad, but the determining factor is the law school record. But if you don’t want to actually practice law, go to the school that will give you the best education and opportunities. Then think about grad school.</p>
<p>One more thought. One reason that is it a myth that the law degree gives you more flexibility in career choices is the fact that so many come out of law school with lots of debt. With that level of debt, the only choice is to go for the law firm job that will pay the most to help you get out of debt. I have seen so many young lawyers working in jobs they really hate because it lets them pay the bills. I think this is a tremendous waste of talent. It also is a personal waste. I see these kids working so hard just waiting for the day that they can quit and do what they really want to do. So if the OP decides to keep the law school option open, I would recommend the undergrad program that gives the best deal. Otherwise, the lower paying policy job won’t be an option – which would have defeated the purpose for law school in the first place.</p>
<p>It is a myth that a law degree often opens doors for anything other than practicing law. I have been a headhunter for attorneys for over 20 years and if I had a dime for every frustrated lawyer who thought they would have options with their law degree, I’d be wealthy. At least once week, I have a conversation with a lawyer who fell for the myth, and wants to know where all those jobs are. Sure, there are lawyers who do other things, but why sacrifice 3 expensive years of your life with no intention of doing the thing for which you are preparing?</p>
<p>I agree that it makes very little sense to go into law if you have no intention of ever practicing it in some form. I have met huge number of burned out attorneys or those who decided it’s not really what they want, which is fine unless they have crushing debt to go along with their degree.</p>
<p>I’d say that it would be ideal if you could go where you can get a good education while not depleting ALL the savings your parents have set aside for your schooling so there would be some left for other things–down payment on a place to live, grad school or whatever else may come up.</p>
<p>You have a lot of great options–try to find one that is attractive and lives you with some assets. When you have narrowed your choices, you can try to see if a school you may have a slight preference for will match a more generous school that you’re slightly less interested in attending. Many schools do have some discretion to offer a highly desired applicant a more generous merit package.</p>
