Undergraduate big name compared to graduate?

Graduate School
1

<p>Having gone through the college admission process, I have started to really think about graduate school. While going through the college admission process, it seemed as though there was such an emphasis on going to a school with a name (Harvard, Yale Princeton, etc.). However, I have realized, that going to a small liberal arts school will actually give me a better undergraduate education than if I had gone to one of the "big name" schools (and I don't mean to start an entire discussion about that). When applying to schools, it seemed as though it was really impressive and "cool," to see or meet someone who went to Harvard, Yale, Princeton, etc. There was a "coolness" factor. It impressed people if someone went or goes to a big name for undergraduate.</p>

<p>Why is it that it is "less impressive" if someone went to a big name for graduate school? Personally, I think education is what you make of it, and to get a graduate degree period is extremely impressive, however, not many people think so. When you hear someone has a graduate degree from Harvard, you know they are smart. But when you hear someone went to Harvard as an undergraduate, they are viewed as "special," and of a completely different league. Why is this? Maybe this is only true at my school, but it doesn't make sense to me.</p>

2

<p>From your post it is not clear who you are interested in impressing. Employers are going to be looking for a lot more than what college you went to. And graduate or professional work generally overshadows one’s UG work. I have no idea where my Doctor, Dentist, or Lawyer went to college but I know where they earned their professional degrees.</p>

3

<p>uhhh… OP…
I have no idea what you are talking about.
Is this how you imagine conversations to go?
“Where did you go to college?”
“Harvard”
“OH WOW YOU MUST BE SO SMART LET ME KISS YOUR SHOES AND…oh wait college or grad school?”
“Grad school”
“Oh…uhhh… nice weather today?” </p>

4

<p>Maybe this is only true at my school</p>

<p>I think indeed the problem is sample size. You’re talking to other high schoolers, perhaps early college students, and so it’s understandable that they’re much more focused on college-level outcomes and education. They just went through the grueling process of applying to college, but graduate school isn’t really on their radar yet, so they realize how difficult it is to get into college at one of these places but perhaps not how difficult and meaningful it is to get into graduate school there.</p>

<p>I, on the other hand, am a graduate student, and most of my friends are grad students or young professionals with graduate education. I don’t even know where some of my friends went to undergrad. The ones I do - well, we come from all over, from regional public comprehensives to mid-ranked small LACs to places like Harvard, Brown, and NYU. Most of us went to Columbia for grad school, though (that’s where I go), or an equally prestigious graduate school in their field. And people rarely ask me where I went to undergrad anymore now that I have a grad degree. But yes, I do get that impressed tone of voice when people ask me and I say I go to Columbia. (Personally, I find it kind of embarrassing, especially since many of them are going to graduate schools that are just as good or frankly better in my field - like UVa or Minnesota or UNC - but just happen to not be “Ivy League”).</p>

<p>It’s the same how if I meet a Columbia alumni they’re not as excited when they realize I’m a grad student. We simply don’t share the same undergraduate experience. I can’t chat with them about the Core or the wonders of Bacchanal because I didn’t do those things, nor do I even want to. It’s just a different experience.</p>

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<p>Sorry if I was not clear. I meant the general public. When someone asks where someone went for undergraduate, and they say “Harvard,” it seems like they would be less impressed if they only went to Harvard for graduate school. Do you think this is partly because Harvard College (just using it as an example) has such a low acceptance rate, it is more impressive than being a graduate student? I know there are many different factors playing into graduate school acceptance rates, but at Harvard, there are some programs that have higher acceptance rates than the College itself.</p>

6

<p>Frankly, nobody really cares.</p>

<p>I don’t mean to be blunt about it, but nobody in graduate school cares about that kind of stuff. You’ll find very often that undergraduate “prestige” has absolutely nothing to do with quality of graduate education, as juillet astutely described.</p>

<p>My master’s degree is from Indiana University, one of the top ~5 graduate programs in my field. I don’t really care if Joe Blow from the general public isn’t “impressed” by my degree from a 40,000-student Big Ten school. People in my field recognize the program, and more than that, they recognize my adviser’s name (he’s something of an iconoclast and a polarizing figure.)</p>

7

<p>But there are those employers who hire people with advanced degrees and who may not know much about the fields in which the new hires earned their advanced degrees, or otherwise employers who are more like Joe Schmo than scholars in these same fields.</p>

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<p>Those are some pretty awful employers, if true. Hiring blindly based on which person’s degree sounds more “prestigious”? I’d rather not work there, thanks.</p>

9

<p>I meant the general public. When someone asks where someone went for undergraduate, and they say “Harvard,” it seems like they would be less impressed if they only went to Harvard for graduate school.</p>

<p>First of all, I have not found this to be true at all. When people from the general public ask me where I am a graduate student and I tell them Columbia, they are just as impressed as if I had told them that my undergrad was there. (Funny story - my husband’s commanding officer asked me at a military shindig and when he found out he was so impressed he spread it around, so people who hadn’t even met my husband knew that about me before they met him, lol.)</p>

<p>Second of all, by the time you’re working your butt off in graduate school, you don’t even really care about whether people are impressed where you did your MA or PhD. What you care is whether you’ll get a job that pays well in your field, and people who are hiring in your field are generally familiar with what schools are better in your field.</p>

<p>Do you think this is partly because Harvard College (just using it as an example) has such a low acceptance rate, it is more impressive than being a graduate student</p>

<p>No, because many graduate programs at top schools have acceptance rates that are quite similar to undergrad acceptance rates. For example, Stanford’s economics PhD program has an acceptance rate around 7%.</p>

<p>But there are those employers who hire people with advanced degrees and who may not know much about the fields in which the new hires earned their advanced degrees, or otherwise employers who are more like Joe Schmo than scholars in these same fields.</p>

<p>I don’t think this is true, either, because good employers make it their business to know which schools are the best in their field so that they can get the best new employees. There are several people who do hiring on these forums who have said as much in the past.</p>

<p>I can think of a couple of examples, though, where it might be close to the truth. One is consulting with advanced degree candidates. People with PhDs who don’t go into academia sometimes go into management consulting and are often hired at the big firms - Bain, BCG, McKinsey. In those cases, no, your hirers may not be exactly familiar with the exact placement of your programs, although they may have some sense depending on their field and how long they have been hiring. More importantly, though, their clients will tend to be more impressed with someone with a PhD from Harvard than someone with a PhD from…Georgia State. So in those cases, people with PhDs from Ivies and other top schools do have an advantage in getting hired at consulting firms regardless of what the reputation of their particular program is in their field.</p>

<p>But that comes with some caveats…because generally speaking the top research universities got there because they’re top in many fields, and that advantage only goes so far. For example, top PhD students from places like Michigan, Berkeley, UCLA, UNC and UVa can compete with people from Ivies because they tend to be the kinds of places consulting and finance recruiters get undergrads, too. Plus if you look at the rankings of top programs in many fields, you’ll see that the same names pop up time and again anyway. Michigan has excellent programs in many, many fields; there aren’t too many fields where they’re just an abysmal school. Even the Ivies, although they’re typically not tops in engineering fields, aren’t usually slouches, either. And on the flip side, a school like UIUC is often well-known for their top engineering schools but UIUC is also very highly ranked in a lot of other fields (they have top programs in psychology, English, and French, for example). Again, GOOD employers who are hiring PhDs from a wide range of fields - which honestly makes up a small proportion of hirers - will be familiar with this kind of information, as it is very easy to find online.</p>

<p>And lastly, most employers don’t hire people solely on the basis of what school they went to. Hiring is about skills and fit.</p>

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<p>I didn’t mean hiring per se, but choosing who to interview… although both are related.</p>