Undergraduate Orchestral Conducting

<p>Does anyone know a school other than Mannes or Curtis that offers an undergraduate orchestral conducting degree?</p>

<p>I was under the notion that orchestral conducting was a graduate school concentration, not undergrad...but I could be wrong.</p>

<p>Mostly yes, it is, but given that I have found two programs thus far for undergraduates, I can only assume there are more.</p>

<p>There are very few. Chapman University has a B. Mus. in performance with conducting emphasis.</p>

<p>I quickly looked at NEC, San Fran. Conservatory, Bard, Eastman. Peabody. None offer an undergrad conducting degree. There may in fact be programs out there, but none come to mind. </p>

<p>Conducting, be it vocal or instrumental, is normally a Masters or higher program as others have mentioned. The well known music programs all have basic fundamental introductory conducting courses, and some may even have a "conducting path" outlined, covering the basic and higher level coursework in theory, score analysis, composition, and repetoire as a solid background for advanced level study beyond undergrad.</p>

<p>It's worth noting that most major conductors do not have degrees in conducting.</p>

<p>Most often undergrads get most of their training in conducting by being IN ensembles not through conducting classes (above and beyond the intro courses, that is).
A conductor should first be an excellent performer before conducting other performers, so it makes sense that few bachelor's level or lower programs would even have an emphasis in conducting. Instead, I would encourage your S/D to participate in as many DIFFERENT ensembles as possible with good conductors. Find schools with conductors from whom he/she can learn.</p>

<p>There aren't any real undergrad conducting programs. Mannes is generally a poor school, and the program at Curtis is not undergrad, per se: it also isn't grad, per se. It's a diploma program and accepts candidates regardless of age. Although there have been a handful of younger conducting students at Curtis (I have a friend who started there at 18), virtually all of their students are over 22. Even the aforementioned friend had already earned a bachelors degree at another school when he started.
The best thing you can do is go to a good music school that will give you a good background in theory and solfege, good opportunities to conduct student ensembles, and access to major conductors. The best places are those in large cities with major orchestras and opera companies.
This is, basically, what I've done. I'm purusing conducting studies at NEC even though I'm technically a composition major. I took the non-major conducting courses (and the graduate seminar) and I've gained a lot of experience by conducting student compositions and anything else that happens to come up. I also joined the BSO's chorus (the Tanglewood Festival Chorus) to get more exposure to James Levine and the BSO guest conductors.
This has been my approach, and it has worked well for me so far. There are, of course, other ways of doing it.</p>

<p>MahlerSnob, please try to be a little more careful with what you post. The statement, "Mannes is generally a poor school" is both tactless and absurd. While you might be able to demonstrate convincingly that Mannes has deeply flawed curricula or enrollment policies or whatever, you made no effort to do so in your post; it's best not to bandy about such strong aspersions on prestigious institutions without any apparent reason or support.</p>

<p>MahlerSnob:</p>

<p>Solfege? Please, this isn't 40 years ago and I have perfect pitch. I rather enjoy how your placement of commas alone makes you sound pretentious, to say nothing of what you actually wrote. Otherwise, your suggestions are noted.</p>

<p>I seem to recall the UofC having a conducting strand to its music program; I may be wrong, but check it out.</p>

<p>Cool! Thank you.</p>

<p>wayward_trojan:</p>

<p>"Solfege? Please, this isn't 40 years ago and I have perfect pitch."</p>

<p>Actually, a few schools which still use the inherited French method (esp. those places that were closely tied with Boulanger such as Juilliard) still call ear training courses Solfege. Nothing wrong with that. Nor just calling a course ear training or aural skills. </p>

<p>There's no need to flaunt the fact that you have 'perfect pitch.' It doesn't necessarily make you a better musician. I know people without perfect pitch who are much more attentive to certain musical and interpretive details, while I also know people with perfect pitch who are just sloppy with their performances. It's a great advantage you have there and use it wisely.
Just a word of caution: I know some people with perfect pitch who get very tripped up with dictation/sight-singing when the instructor requires movable-Do rather than fixed-Do. Perhaps you won't have a problem at all, but I've seen perfect pitch become a burden in some cases. </p>

<p>Anyway, I know of very few schools that offer an undergraduate conducting program, and for good reason, if simply for the fact that finding a good conducting job is tough, and having an undergraduate degree in it means that you'll have very little marketable skills once out of college. Think of it this way: If you major in composition, you can write film music, concert music, teach composition, write jingles, arrange for pop musicians, musical theatre etc. etc. And certainly if you graduate with a performance degree, worse comes to worse, you can always be a pianist for weddings and other events if you don't get an orchestral gig or become a successful soloist. Plus you can always offer private lessons. People are willing to spend 100 bucks an hour on piano lessons. </p>

<p>Try finding a conducting job at 22. I know of very, very few Gustavo Dudamels. Even most people coming out with grad or certificate degrees in conducting (most of whom are good if not amazing) are conducting small local orchestras....and only if they are lucky. </p>

<p>MahlerSnob: </p>

<p>I have to agree with fiddlefrog here. Just because Mannes is constantly in the shadow of Juilliard and MSM doesn't make it a poor school. Yes, some departments are weak, but there are also fantastic teachers in others. Generalized statements like that are both hurtful to alum who may read this (fat chance I know, but still) and does a disservice to what is really a decent school. (By the way...I don't go to Mannes. There is no conflict of interest)</p>

<p>Check this kid out. Unbelievable!</p>

<p><a href="http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=071012135546.rb79ftoi&show_article=1%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=071012135546.rb79ftoi&show_article=1&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p><a href="http://laphil.com/press/press_detail.cfm?id=2094%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://laphil.com/press/press_detail.cfm?id=2094&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>That's about as rare an event as I can think of. But...he's conducting a concert of contemporary music. (Which, I should add, I love.) When they let him lead a subscription concert (as opposed to ghettoized family, pops and contemporary music concerts), then I will actually consider that to be big news. </p>

<p>And one final note...after you appoint a 26-year-old to be music director in 2 years, there's really no choice but to choose someone younger to be assistant conductor is there?
Imagine a 20-something music director and a 40-year-old assistant conductor...I can't.</p>