Undergraduate Psychology program, U of Michigan or U of T, which school is better academically in the major of psychology?
I am a Canadian citizen. Money is not a matter. Under my research, U of Michigan is better in psychology. But I want to make sure whether or not valuable paying that extra money for the academic difference. I mean if there is no big difference, I probably choose U of T for my undergraduate. the tuition difference is CAD 10000 and USD 40000. Want to hear your advice. Thank you very much!
Michigan is ranked 7th and U of T is ranked 18th for psychology according to the QS rankings. Both are large public schools. The experience will not be significantly different. The Michigan name may get you further in the U.S., but not in Canada. Cost of attendance for out of state students this year at Michigan is $57K USD. Cost of attendance at U of T is about $22K CAD. That’s a difference of $41K USD/year or $53K CAD/year. The difference over 4 years will be about $220K CAD. Michigan is certainly not worth that much.
No school is worth that much IMHO bouders, I dont care if it’s a public or private school, large or small, or the most elite education on the planet. However, if the OP can easily afford it and really loves the school/location, who is to say that he/she shouldn’t do it. Btw, the OP already mentioned the differences in his/her costs . You just assumed that he/she didn’t get some reduction in fees. By the way, thousands of OOS and International students at Michigan pay full freight each year. Obviously to them, Michigan is worth it.
While Michigan is a top notch school in psychology, no school is ever worth the deep money discrepancy and the impending burden of future debt. Go to Toronto and perhaps choose Michigan/somewhere in the US for graduate school.
“So basically 40K difference, which is something that most CC’ers would dissuade a student from pursuing.”\
IF it were unaffordable. There are many students at Michigan who pay 40K more per year than other cheaper options. That’s my point. If the OP or anybody can easily afford the costs of attending Michigan, who are we to try to dissuade them? Personally I wouldn’t do it, but for others who are able and willing to pay the bill, then that’s another story.
I would not pay that much more for UMich. But I do value UMich higher. But not really for psychology (in part because, if you want to do anything in that field, higher degrees are required). And I’m not Canadian. I also may not have the resources your family does.
Ultimately, no one can decide for you whether something is “worth it” because that is a personal judgement call. Worth it for what reason?
Have you visited both schools? They are both big publics but pretty different and in different settings.
In terms of anything, I don’t think that the (tiny) difference in ranking in psychology of the 2 schools will matter at all at the undergraduate level.
Thanks to all of you. U Michigan does not offer financial aid and hardly offer scholarships to international students. So, basically, @bouders the calculation is reasonable. My parents can afford me to have the education in usa. But I want to know the value of the price. McGill , u of t, ucla, UC Berkeley, U Michigan, major in psychology，are also on my list. Thank you for more discussion.
^^^All of those schools are going to be very strong to exceptional for psychology. Academically, you can’t go wrong with any of them. It should come down to fit in your case, that is if price is no object.
“Have you visited both schools? They are both big publics but pretty different and in different settings.”
Thanks for making that point PurpleTitan. Many here on CC are eager to lump all large, public research universities together as a group. There is definitely going to be a different experience between Toronto and Michigan.
“Both are large public schools. The experience will not be significantly different.”
bouders, just because both universities are large (Toronto is much larger mind you), publically funded, do well in international rankings and have strong Psychology departments does not mean they are similar. Michigan is a much wealthier university (500% wealthier), located in a much smaller college town with a much more cohesive campus environment. The two experiences are nothing alike.
Whether the added cost of attending Michigan is worth it depends entirely on one’s financial situation. Is travelling business class over economy class worth it? As far as safety and end result go, there is no difference, but in terms of comfort, especially for flights exceeding 4 hours, business class is worth the extra cost for those who can afford it. The same goes for almost all personal expenditures. Bentley vs Honda, Breguet vs Tissot etc…If cost is not a factor, then other criteria take precedence. What does Annie16 want?
Alexandre, have you visited the University of Toronto? It is a very cohesive campus. Canadian universities do not depend on endowments for their funding. Ontario is a much wealthier province than Michigan and as a result U of T is in a much better financial position than Michigan. I’ve worked at several universities in the U.S. as well as U of T and Harvard and I have not come across any that I would compare to business class on an airplane.
I’d be more concerned about graduate school for psychology. At least in the US you need a master and preferably a Ph.D for most jobs. Not sure what you can do with a bachelors except go on to grad school, law school, med school, business school etc… or work in sales. I’d look at it from that perspective.
Indeed, I don’t really believe that money isn’t a matter if you are asking about value.
If your family brings in 7 figures a year (and thus just doesn’t mind blowing 6 figures), then I can believe that money isn’t a matter. Otherwise, I don’t see the sense of a psychology major paying far more to attend another big public school when Toronto and McGill are much cheaper and about as good.
All of the schools mentioned in the UC and Canada are good for undergrad Psych.
My concern would be for grad school, where for any clinical concentration, there is little to know funding, meaning that you would pay in the neighborhood of $60+K USD for a Master’s and $90+K for a PsyD, depending on what part of the country you’re planning to study.
If an undergrad degree - with debt or not - will cost your family in excess of $200K, the career-predictive return on investment doesn’t make much sense.
I’m a parent of a student that had $0 undergrad debt (!!!), then went on for a PsyD.
She now has a great job, but close to $100K in debt, living in a high cost urban area. The average graduate debt of her cohort is $135k, as for various reasons many took longer to complete both the thesis and post-doc’s.
Although she makes her payments and is on the 10-year federal forgiveness plan, the debt burden has impacted her ability to change jobs, buy a house, have a baby or imagine a different future in case of burn-out.
If you’re thinking of grad school as part of your future, I would recommend that you make every attempt to keep the undergrad debt (or pay out) to a dull roar. It’s the grad degree that really matters.
“Ontario is a much wealthier province than Michigan and as a result U of T is in a much better financial position than Michigan.”
That comment makes no sense whatsoever. Michigan has a 10 billion dollar endowment, plus it gets money from the state. Have you ever been to Ann Arbor?