LOCATION: I know I’d much rather live in Toronto than in Ann Arbor, but I’m not sure if I should prioritize this above something else–either way, it feels hugely important to me. I’m already from Michigan, and I really just want to go out and explore as much as I can. I’ve already lived near Ann Arbor all my life.
PRICE: both will cost about the same, with Toronto being slightly higher (I don’t qualify for in-state tuition at UMich because I’m taking a gap year)
SCHOOL SPIRIT: I’ve heard the school spirit at UT is pretty much nonexistent… is this true? I know it’s nowhere near the level of, say, UMich’s spirit, but is it at least exciting to go to games?
CHANCE AT GRAD SCHOOL: I know I want to go to grad school and work for public health, but I’m not sure where. Everyone seems to be saying if you want to stay in Canada, go to UT, and if you want to stay in the US, go to UMich, but what if you don’t know?
GRADES: I hear such mixed things about Toronto. Most people seem to say that there’s a ridiculously hard bell curve which makes it nearly impossible to earn a decent GPA, thereby destroying a chance to transfer back to a school like Umich or get into grad school. Yet, others say those people are the cynics and that the cynics are always the loudest; they say you can get a good GPA if you really try. But what cost does this come at? Do you have to completely sacrifice making friends and going to games just to get a GPA good enough for grad school when you could do both at UMich? The statistics I’ve seen floating around are terrifying…things along the lines of a C- average for the Life Sciences program, 2300 students to begin with and 500 to end with, only 15% of students with a GPA above a 3.85, etc.
Please help me sort this out if you know anything about either of these universities. I just received a scholarship to toronto that I need to accept by Friday. Thank you.
If you want a traditional US college experience, Ann Arbor. Canadian schools are structured differently and play a different role in the educational careers of students.
The big sports in Toronto are the professional teams - baseball, basketball, hockey, football, soccer, lacrosse. There’s lots of team spirit at those.
The average GPA for life science courses is more in the B range at U of T. I attended U of T for life sciences 30+ years and even then, the average GPA was a B- for life sciences.
My ds just graduated from U of T last year, had a social life, participated in extracurriculars, screwed up some, didn’t study as hard as he could have, and still ended up at an ivy league law school.
“School Spirit” is only a thing in the USA, so don’t expect anything similar in any Canadian university. UT is a great school, and is better than Michigan for many things, but it’s generally easier for a student from the USA to get into grad school in Canada with a degree from the USA, than to get into grad school in the USA with a degree from Canada, though UT is well known enough that this probably won’t be a problem.
Grad schools know that universities outside of the USA often grade more harshly, and do not consider a 3.7 from UT as the same as a 3.7 from an American university. Also, in general, the undergraduate GPA needed to be accepted to grad school is not as high as the HS GPA needed to be accepted to undergraduate studies.
Toronto is a nicer place than Ann Arbor - it’s a real city. Weather is about the same.
Doesn’t much matter for Professional school. For example, law school is nearly all about GPA+LSAT, and a below median GPA from a Canadian school is a big minus on the application to a T14. (USNews only cares about actual GPA in its ranking; no bonus points for attending a grade-deflated school.)
big risk to attend a CA school if you plan on grad/profesional school in the states. From what I’ve read on cc, the Canadian schools have an old-school C+ curve, so high grades are a lot less generous.
Michigan is a no-brainer here. Go away for grad/professional school.
@PurpleTitan I haven’t yet taken my gap year. It’ll be after I graduate from HS this spring, but I won’t be moving out of Michigan. Just interning in Cali for a few months then a different internship in NYC. I’ve done quite a bit of research on the academics of Toronto, not so much on any other aspects, though. Also, I haven’t looked very in depth at Mich. Thanks for your reply
@MWolf thank you! The grad school process is still a confusing mystery to me, so that actually clears quite a bit up. That’s exactly what I had been wondering about the reputation of UT in grad schools. Thanks!
@bluebayou thanks for your reply! Do you think it would be harder to get into a Canadian grad school with a UMich undergrad degree than it would be to attend a States grad school with a UT degree?? Here is where lots of my worries are.
@schaferch As @PurpleTitan writes - the opposite is true - it is easier to get into a grad school in Canada with an undergrad from the USA than vice versa, though it may not be true for Toronto. However, you will definitely have no problem getting into any Canadian grad school with an undergraduate from Michigan
“Toronto is a nicer place than Ann Arbor - it’s a real city.“
Love Toronto. For an 18 year old, Ann Arbor is a real city as well. It’s also manageable and fully immersive for a true all around undergraduate experience. Toronto will not have that same feeling.
