UNDERGRADUATE ranking based on the student’s environment

College Search & Selection
1

<p>For students and families who want to compare UNDERGRADUATE colleges based on what the student will actually encounter on a college’s campus, consider how colleges compare based on the FOUR KEY QUESTIONS:</p>

<ol>
<li> How strong are your student peers? Stronger classmates are preferred.</li>
<li> What size is the classroom? More smaller classes, fewer large classes and low student/faculty ratios are preferred.</li>
<li> How committed is the institution to effective classroom instruction? A commitment to undergraduate teaching (with professors) is preferred. </li>
<li> How financially strong is the institution and will they spend to assist undergraduates? More money is preferred. More student services and full financial need coverage is preferred.</li>
</ol>

<p>I measured a universe of 76 National Universities and compared and ranked them in this universe only. This “ranking” is admittedly a rough measurement and unquestionably others might select different proxies for this comparison. But for prospective undergraduates and families, I think it’s a pretty accurate reflection of the nature of the academic environment and scene that a typical undergraduate will encounter when he/she goes to college. </p>

<p>Here is the methodology: </p>

<p>30% = Selectivity. The method used is to measure both strength and depth by evaluating the % of 700+ scorers on Critical Reading and Math and the 30+ scorers on the ACT (counted twice). </p>

<p>30% = Size of Classroom. The method used is to assign 40 % for rank in classes with fewer than 20 students, 40% for rank in classes with more than 50 students, and 20% for rank in student/faculty ratio.</p>

<p>30% = Teaching. The method uses the USNWR Teaching Commitment ranking. 17 colleges received a ranking. All other colleges were ranked equally at # 30.</p>

<p>10% = Institutional Resources. The method uses the USNWR Financial Resources ranking. (One adjustment could be to further tweak this listing and take into account the degree to which the school offers full financial need-based aid.)</p>

<p>Rank , National University (publics in CAPS) ( Total Score )</p>

<p>1 , Yale ( 4 points)
2 , Princeton ( 6 points)
3 , Duke ( 8 points)
4 , U Chicago ( 10 points)
5 , Dartmouth ( 11 points)
5 , Caltech ( 11 points)
7 , Stanford ( 12 points)
8 , Harvard ( 13 points)
9 , Northwestern ( 14 points)
10 , Rice ( 15 points)
10 , Brown ( 15 points)
10 , Wash U ( 15 points)
13 , U Penn ( 16 points)
14 , Columbia ( 17 points)
15 , Vanderbilt ( 18 points)
16 , Tufts ( 19 points)
16 , Emory ( 19 points)
16 , Notre Dame ( 19 points)
16 , MIT ( 19 points)
20 , Wake Forest ( 21 points)
21 , Johns Hopkins ( 24 points)
22 , Brandeis ( 25 points)
22 , Georgetown ( 25 points)
24 , Carnegie Mellon ( 27 points)
25 , Tulane ( 26 points)
26 , WILLIAM & MARY ( 28 points)
27 , USC ( 30 points)
27 , Cornell ( 30 points)
27 , UC BERKELEY ( 30 points)
30 , Case Western ( 31 points)
30 , U Miami ( 31 points)
32 , U Rochester ( 32 points)
32 , Yeshiva ( 32 points)
32 , U N CAROLINA ( 32 points)
35 , NYU ( 33 points)
35 , U MICHIGAN ( 33 points)
37 , Pepperdine ( 34 points)
38 , Boston College ( 37 points)
39 , Worcester ( 38 points)
40 , U VIRGINIA ( 39 points)
40 , UCLA ( 39 points)
40 , Rensselaer ( 39 points)
40 , Lehigh ( 39 points)
44 , SMU ( 41 points)
44 , Boston University ( 41 points)
46 , George Washington ( 43 points)
46 , U PITTSBURGH ( 43 points)
48 , GEORGIA TECH ( 45 points)
48 , U ILLINOIS ( 45 points)
48 , U MINNESOTA ( 45 points)
51 , U WISCONSIN ( 46 points)
51 , UC SAN DIEGO ( 46 points)
51 , Fordham ( 46 points)
51 , U WASHINGTON ( 46 points)
55 , U FLORIDA ( 49 points)
55 , Syracuse ( 49 points)
55 , U IOWA ( 49 points)
55 , CLEMSON ( 49 points)
59 , OHIO STATE ( 50 points)
59 , UC S BARBARA ( 50 points)
61 , U MARYLAND ( 51 points)
62 , U DELAWARE ( 52 points)
63 , UC IRVINE ( 54 points)
63 , U TEXAS ( 54 points)
63 , U CONNECTICUT ( 54 points)
63 , PURDUE ( 54 points)
63 , RUTGERS ( 54 points)
68 , UC DAVIS ( 55 points)
69 , U GEORGIA ( 56 points)
70 , PENN STATE ( 58 points)
71 , TEXAS A&M ( 59 points)
71 , BYU ( 59 points)
73 , UC S CRUZ ( 60 points)
74 , MICHIGAN ST ( 61 points)
75 , INDIANA U ( 65 points)
75 , VIRGINIA TECH ( 66 points)</p>

2

<p>interesting how Penn State is so low and Yeshiva so high</p>

3

<p>Pierre
Yeshiva is one of those schools that compares very well on data like class sizes and financial resources/spending per student. Every year when the USNWR rankings come out, I wonder if Yeshiva and other very small colleges (like Caltech) really belong in the National University rankings. </p>

<p>As for Penn State, I once heard it referred to as a leviathan. IMO, that’s pretty accurate, but a leviathan with pockets of strength…and some pretty prominent weaknesses. There is an excellent Honors College (Schreyer), but there is not great depth to the student body. The class sizes don’t compare well on the low end (only 30% of classes have less than 20 students vs 45% at in-state rival U Pittsburgh) and, at 17/1, their Student/Faculty ratio is one of the worst of any college ranked in the USNWR Top 50. Furthermore, Penn State’s institutional resources are surprisingly small for a school of its size and with a brand name as well known as it is. For example, the Financial Aid that Penn State offers, even to IS students, stinks when compared to other highly ranked national universities.</p>

4

<p>I don’t think such a thing can be objectively measured or ranked, but at least it’s an interesting exercise in futility.</p>

<p>The ranking is noticeably lacking a measurement of professor quality, however. This needs to be factored in, whether through peer assessment or awards or professional organization membership (e.g. NAS, NAE, etc.).</p>

5

<p>Hawkette include a category of quality for professors. It was for teaching though and not research.</p>

6

<p>yet another ranking that would boost the image of those less prestigious private schools. nothing new… just a pretty minor twist of the USNews ranking that says Harvard is not top 5 in America and Emory or Vandi is superior to Cal. Right!</p>

<p>oh, and I’m sure the author has done some magic for the selectivity part.</p>

7

<p>RML,
The methodology is fully transparent, including for selectivity. See opening post for details.</p>

<p>For undergrad, I think you would find many (including many Harvard current students/grads) who would agree that Harvard’s effort with its undergraduate students is lacking. This is not news. The name is still exceedingly powerful, but as Andre Agassi might now say, image isn’t everything. And he would definitely be right in applying this thought to undergraduate colleges in the USA. </p>

<p>As for the mention of Emory and Vanderbilt, on most undergraduate measures, both are superior to UC Berkeley and probably today more than ever. There is little doubt that UCB is a renowned university, but I think you need to do a bit of homework on what goes on at those privates you so disdain. They attract excellent students, provide them a terrific learning environment, give them great resources for their learning and spend money to support ALL of their students in need.</p>

8

<p>If you wanted to go a little deeper, you can use IPEDS to take a deeper look at finances and find out how much per student is being spent on student services, instruction, etc.</p>

9

<p>mel,
I think that the USNWR Financial Resources data (which I used as a 10% weighting in this “ranking”) measures the average spending per student at each college. No doubt that some schools play games with this number by including things like med school spending or research spending so there are some problems with this, but it’s the best that I had available. I would like to also use endowment data in order to calculate and compare per capita available, but the most recently available data is for 6/30/08 which is hopelessly outdated. I expect that we’ll see 6/30/09 data in early 2010.</p>

<p>I’m not sure what’s on IPEDS and maybe you could provide that for some of the colleges and that might provide greater insight. </p>

<p>In the meantime, here is the how the Top 75 colleges compare on their Financial Resources:</p>

<p>USNWR Fin’l Resources Rank School</p>

<p>1 , Caltech
2 , Yale
3 , MIT
3 , Wash U
3 , Johns Hopkins
6 , Harvard
7 , Wake Forest
8 , U Penn
8 , U Chicago
10 , Stanford
11 , Duke
12 , Dartmouth
12 , Northwestern
14 , Princeton
15 , Columbia
15 , Vanderbilt
17 , Cornell
18 , Emory
20 , Yeshiva
21 , U Rochester
22 , Rice
23 , Carnegie Mellon
23 , Case Western
25 , UCLA
26 , Brown
26 , UC SAN DIEGO
26 , U Miami
30 , U WASHINGTON
31 , Georgetown
31 , Tufts
31 , U N CAROLINA
31 , UC DAVIS
36 , U PITTSBURGH
37 , USC
37 , U MICHIGAN
37 , NYU
37 , U MINNESOTA
42 , Notre Dame
43 , UC BERKELEY
43 , Rensselaer
46 , U FLORIDA
47 , Brandeis
50 , GEORGIA TECH
50 , Lehigh
50 , UC IRVINE
53 , U WISCONSIN
53 , Tulane
53 , Boston University
58 , Pepperdine
61 , U ILLINOIS
61 , OHIO STATE
64 , U VIRGINIA
64 , George Washington
67 , Boston College
67 , PENN STATE
71 , RUTGERS
71 , SMU
77 , U IOWA
81 , UC S BARBARA
81 , TEXAS A&M
81 , U CONNECTICUT
81 , U DELAWARE
81 , Worcester
86 , U TEXAS
86 , CLEMSON
88 , WILLIAM & MARY
88 , U MARYLAND
88 , Syracuse
88 , PURDUE
88 , MICHIGAN ST
88 , UC S CRUZ
110 , U GEORGIA
122 , Fordham
131 , VIRGINIA TECH
146 , INDIANA U
195 , BYU</p>

10

<p>Hawkette, it is absolutely pointless for a CC poster to create a ranking, because you will have your own results that you want to see and tweak methodologies to achieve those results. Changing methodologies allows one to create pretty much any ordering of schools, it definitely allows one to place certain types of schools higher, and others lower. I don’t think your methodology is horrible, but you have cherry picked factors that you think are important and then you have arbitrarily assigned weights. </p>

<p>Even if you claim to be objective we will not see it like that. Looking at your posting history, you definitely have schools which you favor (Duke for example). Basically anyone on this website can create a ranking about “student environment” or “student advantage” or “educational benefit” etc etc. cherry pick factors, assign methodology weights and come up with a ranking that suits their bias.</p>

<p>Your presentation of college comparison data was much more valid and useful, this ranking and any others developed by posters on CC are impossible to divorce from a certain agenda, so nice try.</p>

11

<p>confcoll,
I appreciate your comments and understand your criticisms. I think that they are understandable even if I don’t necessarily agree with them. </p>

<p>In creating this ranking, I started with a view about what factors most influence the undergraduate academic environment and how they might be appropriately weighted. I concede that others might choose different factors or assign different weights, but I think you would be surprised how little the “rankings” do change. It’s not as easy as you claim to do a legitimate ranking to favor a school or group of schools and get any result you want. You may not agree with my specific data points and weights, but I would hope that you would say that it is a reasonable attempt to rank undergraduate colleges. </p>

<p>I’ll make a deal with you. Give me the factors that you might use to create an UNDERGRADUATE ranking and I’ll try to run the numbers for you. Give me real data points and weightings that you believe in and which you are willing to defend as better than the above. Unless you have really different ideas from me about what is important about the undergraduate academic environment, I suspect the result won’t be that greatly different from what I have posted above.</p>

12

<p>Here is a ranking of about 100 colleges and universities based on factors that are related to environment. I used a formula with weights and adjustments for scale that roughly boils down to the following weights:
SAT 75th percentile 24%
SAT 25th percentile 23%
average instructional faculty salary 22%
retention after 1 year 15%
graduation rate after 6 years 14%
student faculty ratio 1%
percent of core revenues spent on instruction 1%</p>

<p>I did not give the last two factors much weight because s-f ratio is nearly the same almost everywhere, effiectively ranging from 6:1 to 18:1. I just didn’t think this would make much difference in what students experienced. Percent instructional revenues probably has an optimal value; it can be too high or too low. I am not sure what that optimal value is. At some great schools it is high and at some great schools it is low. It depends more on LAC versus university. I also think the last two factors are not calculated in a standardized way. not calculated the same everywhere.</p>

<p>Data is from IPEDS.</p>

<p>1119.0 California Institute of Technology
1112.1 Harvard University
1094.1 Princeton University
1093.0 Yale University
1072.6 University of Chicago
1064.9 University of Pennsylvania
1063.4 Massachusetts Institute of Technology
1055.8 Columbia University in the City of New York
1049.9 Washington University in St Louis
1043.8 Stanford University
1040.1 Harvey Mudd College
1036.4 Cornell Engineering
1034.5 Northwestern University
1032.2 Duke University
1029.0 Rice University
1025.8 Pomona College
1022.4 Cornell Arts and Sciences
1020.4 Cornell University
1020.1 Brown University
1015.8 University of California-Berkeley
1013.6 University of Notre Dame
1013.6 Carnegie Mellon University
1012.6 Vanderbilt University
1010.6 Williams College
1009.9 Dartmouth College
1007.5 Swarthmore College
1006.3 University of Southern California
1003.9 Amherst College
1001.0 Tufts University
995.9 University of California-Los Angeles
995.4 Boston College
992.7 New York University
987.4 Wesleyan University
987.2 Emory University
986.0 Georgetown University
984.9 University of Virginia-Main Campus
982.5 Wellesley College
980.1 Carleton College
976.5 Johns Hopkins University
975.8 University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
975.4 Washington and Lee University
975.2 Bowdoin College
973.0 Brandeis University
971.9 Georgia Institute of Technology-Main Campus
970.9 Middlebury College
970.8 Davidson College
969.4 Scripps College
969.1 Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
968.9 Vassar College
968.1 Claremont McKenna College
967.3 Haverford College
964.5 Colgate University
964.3 Hamilton College
961.7 Lehigh University
959.8 University of California-San Diego
959.5 Barnard College
958.5 Colby College
958.0 University of Rochester
957.2 George Washington University
955.7 University of Maryland-College Park
954.4 College of William and Mary
952.1 Oberlin College
945.4 Boston University
944.1 Reed College
943.0 University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
941.1 University of Michigan-Ann Arbor
937.8 Wake Forest University
937.5 Smith College
934.5 Macalester College
933.5 Colorado College
933.5 Tulane University of Louisiana
933.4 University of Wisconsin-Madison
932.3 Case Western Reserve University
929.6 Ohio State University-Main Campus
925.4 Lafayette College
923.8 University of Connecticut
923.0 University of California-Irvine
922.5 Bucknell University
922.5 Stevens Institute of Technology
921.6 University of Florida
921.2 University of California-Santa Barbara
920.5 Grinnell College
919.0 SUNY at Binghamton
918.7 Brigham Young University
917.4 Fordham University
916.2 The University of Texas at Austin
915.6 Franklin and Marshall College
915.5 Occidental College
915.3 Rutgers University-New Brunswick
914.3 Kenyon College
913.9 Bryn Mawr College
912.8 University of Miami
912.8 Connecticut College
912.7 University of Minnesota-Twin Cities
910.0 American University
909.6 University of Delaware
905.1 Trinity College
904.8 Pepperdine University
902.6 University of Richmond
902.4 University of Washington-Seattle Campus</p>

13

<p>ch,
Can you answer a few questions:

  1. Why did you choose your weightings for the various categories?
  2. Is the faculty salary data adjusted for Cost-of-Living differences?
  3. Would you please post the underlying data for these colleges for the data you collected on faculty salary and % of core revenues spent on instruction? Also, how is “core revenue” defined?</p>
14

<br>

<br>

<p>I agree. And I would further point out that all these same criticisms apply to ALL rankings, including USNews. This is why all rankings are ultimately pointless. Why should we believe that a magazine’s editors are any less biased or more above tweaking or weighting to achieve a desired result? That’s why I’ve always said if you don’t like where your school is ranked, make your own ranking. The more the merrier.</p>

<p>I view rankings as something akin to horoscopes - cute exercises that are fun to talk about but not to be taken seriously.</p>

15

<p>

@hawkette: I appreciate your commitment to providing the CC community with data, but you really do confuse me sometimes. In the past, you have called the USNWR Peer Assessment ratings “fraudulent” and criticized “the undefined criteria by which unidentified voters cast their secret ballots”. Yet now, you proudly give the Teaching Commitment rating 30% of your overall ranking, despite the fact that it has similarly fuzzy criteria and is based on surveys of equally unaccountable administrators. Care to explain?</p>

<p>Source: <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/797962-college-comparison-xxii-usnwr-peer-assessment-ratings.html[/url][/size]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/797962-college-comparison-xxii-usnwr-peer-assessment-ratings.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>EDIT
How about this:</p>

<p>NRC ranking in prospective major(s) * Retention rate * Graduation rate <– out of 5, 50%
SAT CR+M scores (if ACT is majority, convert composite) <– out of 1600, 25%
% international + % non-majority-gender + % Pell grant recipients <– out of 3, 25%</p>

<p>That measures departmental strength, student body strength, and diversity. You could throw in overall USNWR PA if you want prestige too.</p>

16

<p>

</p>

<p>At the moment, I don’t have time to go through and actually do the math, but you can create group statistics and under Finance look to Public Institutions GASB for 2006-2007 data on spending for Instruction, Research, Public Service, Academic Support, Student Services, Institutional Support, etc. You can find the privates under Private Non-For-Profit Institution using FASB and get data on all the same categories plus more info on grant-aid, etc.</p>

17

<p>Collegehelp:</p>

<p>Sorry, but any list where Rutgers (my states “best known” public school) comes out higher than Kenyon (my child’s choice of school) is a list to which I really can give no credence. And yes, I know that this is obviously only my personal opinion. But other than the fact that their professors make more money (our incredibly high NJ cost of living maybe?), I can’t figure out how it could in anyway be ranked higher. Is it based on that great football program their working desperately to grow? Honestly, the bottom line is I don’t know how one can compare what is being called “environment” at a school like Kenyon (or Connecticut College or Bryn Mawr - also ranked lower) with that at a school like Rutgers. And really, University of Delaware and University of Richmond also below Rutgers? Again, I’m obviously reacting in a very personal way to this list, but that’s only because as far as I’m concerned, I don’t think that Rutgers is really that strong of a school. I just can’t figure out which of your 7 categories is giving it such a boost in these rankings? (Sorry - personal pet peeve about my state’s school and what I think they value most - and it’s NOT enticing the state’s best students to go there if you know what I mean. Do you realize the football coach is actually the highest paid state employee in NJ? Crazy!! OK - I’m done with my Rutgers rant - and my apologies to all I’ve offended.)</p>

18

<p>China-
I have to agree with you. The reason is that Rutgers faculty receive much higher average salaries than Kenyon faculty. This led me to change my weights slightly so that now Kenyon is ranked higher than Rutgers. Kenyon has much higher SATs than Rutgers and this is the most important factor. But, I am not going to re-post a new list…too much information.</p>

<p>The salary factor clearly favors the large research universities.</p>

<p>Thanks for your feedback. You helped me improve my method.</p>

19

<p>percent of core revenues spent on instruction, average salary of instructional faculty, school</p>

<p>I am not sure what “core revenues” means. It is a term used in IPEDS. Salaries are not adjusted for cost of living.</p>

<p>32 143609 California Institute of Technology
31 146331 Harvard University
35 137358 Princeton University
44 130537 Yale University
60 119953 Columbia University in the City of New York
26 124258 Massachusetts Institute of Technology
59 127627 University of Chicago
40 120962 Stanford University
57 112767 Washington University in St Louis
47 104415 Harvey Mudd College
37 116047 Northwestern University
37 124240 University of Pennsylvania
49 100680 Pomona College
50 111068 Rice University
32 114273 Cornell Engineering
36 112135 Duke University
50 103826 Williams College
40 106126 Brown University
44 101821 Swarthmore College
32 114273 Cornell Arts and Sciences
20 105023 Dartmouth College
54 102912 Vanderbilt University
32 114273 Cornell University
39 103271 Amherst College
41 109687 Carnegie Mellon University
47 103105 University of Notre Dame
57 106007 University of Southern California
43 102984 Emory University
53 102583 Wellesley College
55 96020 Wesleyan University
54 109022 New York University
53 92543 Washington and Lee University
33 97328 Tufts University
49 92886 Carleton College
42 92193 Bowdoin College
39 105298 Georgetown University
49 107558 Boston College
49 91285 Vassar College
0 98119 Claremont McKenna College
32 116003 University of California-Berkeley
47 86940 Haverford College
39 91747 Middlebury College
43 93587 Johns Hopkins University
39 95920 Davidson College
45 96374 Brandeis University
49 88993 Hamilton College
51 97105 Scripps College
41 94079 Colgate University
40 115069 University of California-Los Angeles
50 94338 Barnard College
40 106047 University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
42 91852 Colby College
55 87473 Oberlin College
29 103265 University of Virginia-Main Campus
39 97395 University of Rochester
43 100255 Lehigh University
37 97456 Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
47 84518 Reed College
42 88800 College of William and Mary
49 100598 Smith College
42 104281 George Washington University
23 102452 Georgia Institute of Technology-Main Campus
42 81888 Macalester College
24 93998 Wake Forest University
20 91680 University of Michigan-Ann Arbor
35 89130 Colorado College
43 79632 Grinnell College
60 96910 Boston University
33 91111 Case Western Reserve University
32 102048 University of Maryland-College Park
42 82871 Bucknell University
45 89567 Lafayette College
45 81250 Connecticut College
45 84814 Bryn Mawr College
46 84500 Tulane University of Louisiana
44 80023 Franklin and Marshall College
51 85133 Occidental College
45 74010 Kenyon College
48 96461 Stevens Institute of Technology
30 90153 University of Miami
44 72624 Whitman College
20 93656 University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
38 87956 University of Richmond
44 96940 Fordham University
44 82663 Trinity College
28 105043 University of California-San Diego
42 104415 Rutgers University-New Brunswick
43 90519 American University
45 78573 College of the Holy Cross
50 76804 Furman University
38 96567 Ohio State University-Main Campus
41 72231 Wheaton College
36 89951 Southern Methodist University
45 73577 Dickinson College
39 87000 Thomas Aquinas College
33 93351 Pepperdine University
44 73361 Gettysburg College
37 99894 University of Connecticut
23 90149 University of Wisconsin-Madison
29 96057 The University of Texas at Austin
48 73546 Skidmore College
32 82998 University of Florida
50 94493 University of Delaware
51 67849 St. Olaf College
25 93428 University of Minnesota-Twin Cities
37 85464 SUNY at Binghamton
34 93951 University of Washington-Seattle Campus
55 69422 Illinois Wesleyan University
31 102060 University of California-Santa Barbara</p>

20

<p>CH-- perhaps actual amounts spent on instruction per student? If a school has far larger core revenues and fewer students then they may have a higher amount spent per student even if their percentage is low.</p>

<p>Though I don’t have access to data to adjust for cost of living, obviously that’s tremendously important.</p>