<p>One thing that bugs me is that it seems that most emphasis is placed on competitive extracurriculars. Sports - did you win state / nationals, were you the captain of the team. Newspaper - were you the editor. Dance - did you achieve at a high level.</p>
<p>What if a kid just has some unique interests that make him or her an interesting person but that aren't competitive in the sense that you can't beat other people or win a blue ribbon for them?</p>
<p>I'm thinking specifically about these interests (not all in the same kid) ... genealogy, including researching the family tree all the way to the 1700's ... yoga (the ultimate not-competitive!) ... scrapbooking ... writing comics for an online service. </p>
<p>Do those make up for not being Captain of the Football Team or Winner of the Science Fair? How do you all suggest presenting / highlighting those to competitive colleges, esp when they may not be aspects of the student that are known to teachers and counselors? Thanks.</p>
<p>Pizzagirl you bring up a good question. My DDs have volunteered w/ a non-profit companion animal rescue and adoption agency since the 7th grade. I haven't looked at a college ap since I applied but just assumed that activity would be counted as an EC or a CS. Where would you put it?</p>
<p>I think any productive or creative activity counts and the more unusual ones will make your application stand out.</p>
<p>historymom</p>
<p>I'd think that that could be called either CS or extra-curricular. When they do the apps it will become clear where you want to put it (if she has other EC's but no other CS, for example). It also might make a good essay topic.</p>
<p>My daughter volunteered on and sailed a 19th century tall ship - put in over 300 hours doing so. It combined her love of sailing with her love of history, and was the topic of her essay.</p>
<p>It seemed to impress her college - they included it in their list of ECs for her class profile. But they also included students who had done some rather unusual things such as winning a grocery bagging contest and attempting to break the world's record for wearing the same pair of socks the longest (yuck!).</p>
<p>"But they also included students who had done some rather unusual things such as winning a grocery bagging contest and attempting to break the world's record for wearing the same pair of socks the longest (yuck!)."</p>
<p>Fireflyscout -- that is SO Carleton in a nutshell!</p>
<p>My D volunteered for a peer group for the 4 years of hs. Because if the dedication and amount of time she put in, she was granted a fully paid scholarship to study in Israel for 6 weeks summer 2006 (just before college). The scholarship covered 100% of her expenses, and was a study/touring program.</p>
<p>It actually sounds like you have quite an interesting life, much of which can add to a college. It is all in how you package yourself.</p>
<p>Yes, you hear a lot about athletes (my D falls into this category), because they are far more numerous, but a college wants to create a class of diverse people. </p>
<p>Your geneological research, shows a great skill necessary for success in college - research. I'm not sure the nature of your comic that you do, but it probably features some level of insight into human nature and some degree of artistic skill. Packaging that with your scrapbooking, I'd say that you probably have a great resume for someone for a lot of creative fields. Hopefully you have something online that is easy to give an online link to in your college applications or capture on digital media.</p>
<p>Not everyone has to be a champion anything (most athletes aren't). And you don't even have to be in a competitive EC - most musicians and dancers are not.</p>
<p>Yours is a question (very well put - without offense to others) that is valid. Just do what you love and present yourself with confidence. You'll do fine!</p>
<p>
[quote]
Do those make up for not being Captain of the Football Team or Winner of the Science Fair?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I think the role of ECs is the most widely misunderstood part of admissions. I would suggest (just speaking as a parent who has watched this process for about 6 years) that ECs and colleges' use of them fall into several categories.</p>
<ul>
<li><p>the vast majority of colleges IMHO don't pay a lot of attention to ECs. Their goal most of the time is to just fill the class with the best students.</p></li>
<li><p>More selective colleges may try to form a well rounded class, with enough musicians, for example, to keep the band leader and orchestra director happy. So they may be, in fact, as interested in traditional ECs as in unusual ones, or signs of great leadership.</p></li>
<li><p>The top tier of unis and LACs, especially the top of the top ten, are looking for future leaders (some would say to have alums that would donate $$$...). Hence they pay a lot of attention to evidence of successful competition at high levels, and evidence of true leadership (which is pretty hard to show at the HS level: popularity versus leadership?) I suspect there is a lot of "star" focus, too, as having stars in the student body makes for great press in the alumni magazine and such.</p></li>
<li><p>Many competitive schools also look for interesting stories, such as the example used earlier in the thread. I suspect the value of these is both as a marketing tool for the college and a reflection of human nature - admissions folks just remember good stories! From an educational or leadership POV, it would be hard to argue that unusual ECs are relevant to college. Maybe they make a more interesting community?</p></li>
<li><p>Leadership has always been a puzzle to me. On the one hand, as I said above, what does "leadership" mean at the HS level? Being elected is too often more about popularity than leadership. Starting a club or nonprofit has become so commonplace, and it is so hard to understand if it was done in order to have an application marker, or done with lots of adult assistance, that I suspect colleges ignore most of it. (but perhaps not. I don't know.) I also worry about the campus environment where everyone is a "leader". That could make for an interesting culture, and could explain the cutthroat competitive nature of some campuses?</p></li>
</ul>
<p>So, in summary, I'd say don't sweat it. Even at the most competitive, top ranked schools, few of your peers if you got in, and even fewer of your competitors for that admissions slot, have those things.</p>
<p>I really appreciate this post because it does put the whole think into perspective. I have been a little concerned about "leadership" with my kids as they are quiet and not real excited by the spotlight. It has bothered me how almost every scholarship opportunity has a leadership tie-in. What about the kids who are the worker bees? The ones who quietly go about helping the leaders look good are as instrumental to success? I agree with you, what happens to democracy when the only kids ad-coms and scholarship selection committees are looking at are the "leaders"? So, it is reassuring to see in your post that ad-coms at least are probably aware that "leadership" isn't always what it appears to be on paper.</p>
<p>That said and since scholarship committees want to know, do you think acting as a camp counselor and being a music tutor is leadership? What about being on homecoming and prom committees but not chairing them? </p>
<p>Thanks again for your reasonable perspective.</p>
<p>Mileage may vary on the emphasis of colleges re: the importance of EC's on campus. S-1 attended Amherst where the deans stated -- often! -- that they valued EC's on campus (in aggregate, doesn't matter which ones) to the time spent on coursework. Academic advisors warned kids off triple majors or encouraged them into EC's if they found no balance in the kid's life. As a freshman, ready to declare a theater major, S's academic advisor (on theater faculty) advised him he was doing too many theater EC's and he should diversify to have a full campus experience by joining a new or unfamiliar EC to "take a risk" (good advice). </p>
<p>S-2 is a a freshman at Chapman U. majoring in film in an undergraduate department proud to describe itself as pre-professional in focus. The academic advisor gave him all kinds of encouragement re: finding jobs (film internships) and developing marketable skills (how about evolving still photography into a dayjob as a wedding photographer..). These relate to his academic major but I was interested that they fold in commercial concerns. It's appropriate, too, because he'd only be able to pursue their academic training if he can function economically (not starve) as well. They're not as artsy as some other film schools and claim that distinction proudly, wanting their grads to become commercially viable in "the industry." </p>
<p>So there are two places, one proud of academics and campus citizenship, the other emphasizing early ability to work commercially and not starve. I'm suggesting that there may be no one answer to the OP and that colleges may have different emphasis on EC's as part of their mission.</p>
<p>Perhaps there's something on the website or picked up in a college visit to tell you whether that campus is more competitive in outlook. Some places laugh apologetically about their own sports scores and culture during the admissions tour (Oberlin, my alma mater) when mentioning teams. At other colleges, team sports and intermurals is a deadly serious topic! YMMV -- your mileage may vary.</p>
<p>Another idea on the leadership issue- my D had an opportunity to apply for a leadership scholarship given by the university to which she was applying. She would be captain and leader of sports teams, but those seasons had not yet occured and it would be rather presumptuous to say I will be captain ;)</p>
<p>Also, she is not the student body president type, she did not see herself as a leader. She talked over the app with her GC and he explained to her that she is a leader in the way she leads her life everyday, her values, her standards, etc., that she is also a leader for her younger sister, etc.</p>
<p>It was the most lovely thing I had ever heard and I wanted to hug the GC, D wrote a great essay, did a great interview, all because this gentleman took the time to allow her to see herself from a different perspective and realise that one does not have to be a certain type of leader!</p>
<p>If you've a student pursuing a leadership award, think outside the box.</p>
<p>I got a little choked up at your post. :-) Bless that GC. Your D sounds like mine. Quiet, Honest, Hard Working etc. I believe my daughters...who are the oldest girl cousins in our tight knit family...have had a very positive leadership role with their younger cousins. Interesting take on leadership. Thank you for sharing it!</p>
<p>PS: D won the award and it affiliated her with a lovely group on campus, she has been reawarded that award every year.</p>
<p>The GC is a dear man and the best thing is that his talk was real and sincere, he really does feel D lives her life in a way showing quiet leadership- and it still warms my heart, too!</p>
<p>The best part was he showed her that life is not just the way of the cookie cutter, you really can find your passion, pursue your interests and show universities you are interesting; he pointed out she should show the interviewers why they needed to look outside the box and it worked.</p>
<p>There are quiet leaders and there are noisy leaders. An organization needs both, IMO...someone to get the troops organized and excited, and people that you can actually rely upon to get the work done.</p>
<p>What colleges don't want to see is apathy & laziness.</p>
<p>I like the distinction between quiet leaders and noisy leaders. My own D is one of the quiet ones, too. I just don't know how widely recognized the value of quiet leaders is. Certainly in the workplace, they are recognized and valued. In college admissions, I can only hope so.</p>
<p>We'll see if the same holds true for post-college scholarships in our house. D has applied and will know within a month.</p>
<p>My S is one of the quiet leaders, and his success in his apps last year was very gratifying. Just wait and see. I think you have good things in store for you.</p>
<p>To do my daughter justice, she is one of the more outgoing ones. You can't walk into a room and not notice her. I think she makes a wonderful contribution to her campus and her community, but no more than my quiet son. </p>
<p>I think leadership can be translated as integrity which can be expressed many ways.</p>
<p>Son never played a sport in HS, yet he is at a University that is well-known for sports. In fact, most kids at least played a sport in HS. I think he was admitted to this Uni because of grades, high scores, great essay on his passion that he pursued as an independent study in HS (although not his major), and he had several years of volunteering at our local ZOO-having become certified to handle different animals and helping at kids camps, giving tours, etc. Perhaps this helped with the leadership aspect as he also worked most summers at local eng/computer firms. The fact that he did not play sports did not seem to impact his admissions to various schools (even tho I thought it might!) and GC really thought that he should have participated in sports in HS. So, I guess my point is that while sports definately can develop young minds and bodies, as well as cultivate leaders, there are many other things that can show qualities of a student applying to colleges. And yes, I have to agree with previous posters that every year colleges are looking for different kinds of kids to fill its class-son might not have been accepted to this Uni last year or this coming year for that matter.</p>
<p>I think being a tutor and a camp counselor indicates strong leadership skills. My son's most maturing experience in HS, I think, was casting and directing a play. He really grew in empathy for the cast (and not-cast) and had to deal with telling peers what to do--or drawing out their own interpretation of their roles.</p>
<p>I love the quiet leader idea too--sometimes they get more done than anyone--though we DO need the noisy ones too.</p>
<p>S-2 felt that his quiet leadership style was so key to his personality that he made it the topic of the supplementary essay. Some examples were how he made a humorous announcement to silence cell-phones and discoverd it was more effective than the more directive approach; how he was stuck when someone pulled out of a responsibility but instead of chastising her figured out how to change the responsibility and find a group to fill in. Listening is very important to that kind of leadership style. He told us around age 12 that he feels best as the "second guy" in social groups, specifically avoiding being the noticeable leader, but befriends the guy-in-charge. So I guess his job is Deputy Barney Fife, but thankfully he brings Andy Griffith's calm.</p>