<p>If you chose/ are planning to choose to go to a university over an LAC, what did you base your decision on? (oh and how could I forget the parents who help out so much on this thread! Parents what about your D/S's decision?)</p>
<p>I know basic advantages of LACs are:
small class size, intimacy with profs, easier availability of resources</p>
<p>...and basic advantages of Universities are:
better resources, more recognition, large student body (a plus for some)</p>
<p>Could anyone share what other reasons prompted them to choose a university over an LAC? From what I'm hearing an LAC education looks to be a better undergrad experience and that's sorta putting me off universities which shouldn't be the case as I'm sure students are very happy there too. </p>
<p>At some universities, you can still have small class sizes and good relationships with profs. </p>
<p>Do any of the colleges that you’re looking at have honors programs? They can provide an intimate LAC-like experience with all the benefits of a large school.</p>
<p>Honors classes are typically small and many upper division classes are rather small. My older son is a senior at a large flagship. All his 3XX/4XX level courses have been 6-25 kids per class.</p>
<p>the stereotypical large class at a university are often the “intro to XXXX” classes that fulfil Gen Ed/Core Requirements. If you come in with a good number of AP courses, you can skip those classes. My kids have never had one of those mega-sized classes you read about because they skipped most of their Gen Ed classes and took honor classes for the Gen Ed that they did need.</p>
<p>LACs have their strong points, for sure. Some of the smaller ones can have reps of becoming too cliqueish.</p>
<p>I prefer larger U’s with honors programs because I think you get ‘more’…more majors, more course offerings, more clubs, more on campus dining venues, more housing choices, more rec choices, and often more off-campus activities and (if needed) often more off campus part-time job opportunities.</p>
<p>perfectpixie - I have one at a LAC and one at a university. The one at the university can get a very good undergraduate education, he just has to work much harder to get into the classes he wants. It’s hard for undergraduates to be able to take advantage of the “more resources” that the university offers. Usually, he can’t get into his first or even second choice classes and spends the first 2 weeks of school E-mailing professors and going to the class hoping to get in. A class that “seems” good may or may not be as all the classes at D’s LAC have been good (so far). S’s best teacher this semester was a grad student, one resource that universities offer that LACs don’t have. PM me if you have any questions. D is at an “elite” LAC and S is at a top 20 university.</p>
<p>We started out looking for LACs for my daughter. Then she decided she was interested in learning a lot of Arabic, and maybe some Farsi. Most LACs have little Arabic, if any, and no Farsi.</p>
<p>So she had to change her list of schools. She has applied to our state flagship (which is e-freaking-normous), and several small to medium-size research universities. But except for the state flagship, she still hasn’t applied to anyplace with tens of thousands of undergraduates.</p>
<p>In my opinion, if cost or admission does not get in the way, the ideal school for most good students would usually be a LAC-like private university or a public honors college. </p>
<p>Nevertheless, I have a personal soft spot for LACs. Nobody in my own inner circle seems to have had a bad experience with a LAC (although one of my kids had a roommate at a LAC who was expelled for drinking and fighting before the first semester was out.) The real turn-around cases (slacker kids in HS who became much more dilligent in and after college) have attended LACs. The Golden Child went to Princeton. The few crash and burn cases I can recall (bright kids who dropped out or graduated onto their parents’ couch), or transfers, have been from large public universities.</p>
<p>I think the fear of a LAC being too small and incestuous is over-stressed. 2000 students at a selective college is a very different social scene than 2000 kids at an average HS. The best reason to avoid a LAC is that you can’t afford it, or because it does not have specific programs you want (like engineering). But I would not necessarily rule out a LAC because you want to learn Arabic or Farsi. You can learn these languages much better in summer or study abroad immersion experiences than you can in any regular college program.</p>
<p>I have a kids at both and I think it’s really a very personal question of what you are trying to get out of your educational and college experience and what kind of learning environment brings out the best in you. One kid loves the many close relationships he has with faculty, small classes that stretch his writing and communication skills, strong sense of community and responsive administration. The other loves the exposure to cutting edge research, world reknowned faculty and the exposure to grad students since that may be her future. The endless variety of classes and activities, and greater student diversity is also a plus - but that has to be weighed against being a face in the crowd for at least the first two years- and possibly longer if you aren’t good at making yourself known to the faculty in your dept. Neither would swap places with the other, although both would probably have thrived in the other environment. </p>
<p>I tend to promote LACs because I think they are too often overlooked by kids who choose schools only on the basis of prestige or name recognition. If they delved more deeply into what they wanted out of their next four years, many would find that the LAC experience is actually a better personal fit.</p>
<p>A BIG thank you to all the parents for offering your opinions and for sharing their children’s experiences! The points in favor of LACs are indeed the ones that have tilted me in their favor and that is why I was curious to know why a university would be chosen by people. But I suppose in universities like U Chicago and Rice the situation wouldn’t be the same as at state flagships? </p>
<p>Also what I am slightly worried about is name recognition. Since I am an international student that (although I don’t want it to) should play a role in my decision of where to go. Should I decide to return back to my country to work instead of staying in States, would it be better if I chose a University instead? Or would a school like Pomona (that although has little recognition abroad would give me a great undergrad education) do just as well if it’s grad school that matters in the end?
What about scholarships for Grad schools in say Oxford/ Cambridge or Fulbright/ Rhodes etc. Would a university entail more recognition or would an LAC be as good?
What is also worrying me about universities is that although they may have a lot of resources, undergrads might not be able to easily utilise them at all. I mean, at a school like Harvard say, where every student is very competitive does every student get ample opportunities for internships, etc? </p>
<p>mom2collegekids: U Chicago, WUStL, Rice, Wesleyan, Stanford are the universities that I am applying to which have honors program. Then HYPB don’t have honors. I shall be probably applying for honors in the schools that do offer it and I am glad to hear that!</p>
<p>GTalum- Thank you for offering! I shall take you up on that offer. :)</p>
<p>In certain professions, name recognition and prestige is pretty important.
Only the top 5 or 10 or so LACs have solid name recognition.
The top 20-30 universities have good name recognition. Idk, just something to note.</p>
<p>@ bzva74 :
I’m certain that I shall be following either of the two careers:
Scientific research should I choose to continue with Physics as career. This entails Ph.D too of course.</p>
<p>2) A career involving international relations/ policy formulation. (Think international law? I’m not sure.) International organization like say WHO/ UN? Need to think out this option a bit more. Or something to do w/ Ministry in my own country.</p>
<p>For a person interested in the above two would you say name recognition and prestige is very important in undergrad school?</p>
<p>1) Science isn’t too important for name recognition. On the other hand you need capable research facilities. I don’t know that much about LAC research, but my gut tells me universities are a bit closer to what you need. Again, that’s my gut, and I’m sure a ton of LACs have very good physics programs and access to science facilities.
2) This career needs prestige, but not so much for undergrad. When applying for jobs in the UN or IGOs, they want to see if you were at Woody Woo or SAIS or SIPA or SFS or Fletcher. Undergrad is less important, if you are planning to get an MA/MS or JD or PhD. </p>
<p>I’d say for either case you can find a good LAC. But I, personally, prefer >5,000 schools because I’m a people person and I want to go to a place with a big and involved campus. </p>
<p>A lot of times, the decision between Uni and LAC comes down to fit. Academics will be stellar either way.</p>
<p>You indicated you might want to go on to graduate school, maybe for a PhD. As a group, LACs seem to have a better track record than universities for the percentage of graduates who earn doctorates.
[COLLEGE</a> PHD PRODUCTIVITY](<a href=“http://web.reed.edu/ir/phd.html]COLLEGE”>Doctoral Degree Productivity - Institutional Research - Reed College)
Note that 7 of the top 10 for “All Disciplines” are LACs. In some fields, 8 or 9 of the top 10 are LACs.</p>
<p>I chose Pomona over other top schools, including top universities. For what you want to do, Pomona (or Amherst, Swarthmore, etc) will get you to where you want to go. You’ll also, in my opinion, get a better education at an LAC. I think the prestige factor is vastly overhyped, especially on CC. The bottom line is that individual achievements, not the school, determines where people end up. Grad schools and top employers know what Pomona is. A random person on the street won’t- but that won’t matter unless you really care what other people think. LAC’s give students a ton of opportunities to do the things they want to do, and thats what will matter when you get to school. If you’re Chinese, a Harvard degree looks pretty good- the Chinese are pretty obsessed with H. But otherwise, it shouldn’t matter internationally. </p>
<p>I have a very close friend who graduated from Brown and told me to go to an LAC (I was seriously considering Brown). She’s brilliant and very successful, but she did most of it on her own because she’s brilliant. Brown didn’t really go out of her way to help her. An LAC like Pomona will do that. If you’re interested in doing scientific research, Pomona will actually pay you around $4000 to do that during the summer with a professor- even as a freshman. It’s difficult to do that at larger schools where grad students generally get the majority of the resources. You can have close relationships with professors at larger schools, it’s just harder. You can get help with your senior research, it’s just harder. As a personal example, I’m very into studio art, but I don’t want to major in it. When I asked Pomona for studio space, they gave it to me right away even though I’m not a major. You’ll also almost always get your first choice classes. If you’re very unlucky and don’t get one, you can probably get in by emailing the professor. </p>
<p>If you can get into Pomona (or Swarthmore?), and that’s where you want to go, go for it. Brown and other universities are great schools, and you’ll probably do fine there.</p>
<p>Perhaps the worst thing about LACs is that there are so few seats available, compared to vast number of seats at large universities. Maybe supply and demand keeps the right balance. Maybe LACs don’t need any promotion. Dunno.</p>
<p>I haven’t seen data, but I doubt that it makes any difference if you go to a LAC or a university when it comes to getting scholarships. The institutions that grant these awards, are keenly aware of the reputations of the schools from which their prospective students come.</p>
<p>I also think where you attend grad school totally eclipses where you do your undergraduate degree. Of course, if you aren’t going to do a graduate degree, and just plan to return home, you would probably do better with a brand name that people in your country recognize. Just be aware that the recognition is generally based on their familiarity with that school’s graduate programs, and not based on the reputation of the undergraduate educational experience.</p>
<p>I attend Reed College and fully disagree about research opportunities. We have many programs that will give you grants to study over the summer or other breaks. Also, we have a small research reactor that is completely student run. It’s also the highest paying job on campus for students. Reed is also (I believe) the only college in the country for which the Rhodes program makes an exception with the GPA requirement, due to the absence of grade inflation.</p>
<p>I’m heavily biased towards LACs. In addition to the small student body, close connections with professors (we are on a first name basis with our professors at Reed), and academic rigor, I have to make the point that the most “prestigious” universities, such as the ivy league schools, do not offer very good undergraduate programs. Harvard got in trouble a few years ago for having TA’s teaching most of the undergraduate courses, and an absurdly high percentage of students maintain 4.0 GPAs after their freshman year due to the insane grade inflation.</p>