Universities Record Drop In Black Admissions

Parents Corner
61

<p>Cangel said,</p>

<br>


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<p>This is exactly what many poor Asian American children do. They work to supplement their parent's low ncomes and they also achieve ACADEMIC EXCELLENCE, their way out of poverty, WITHOUT MAKING ANY EXCUSES. Give credit, where credit is due. Do not trivialize hard work, combined with motivation, creativity, innate intelligence and the love of learning among ALL Asian Americans, including the pooresest Vietnamese, Laotians and Cambodians.</p>

62

<p>Academic performance is not all about being raised in the middle and upper economic classes. The performance of the poorest Asian Americans debunks your points about economic advantage. No one on this thread has addressed the following, because it is not POLITICALLY AND RACIALLY CORRECT. You are towing the politically correct line like a herd of sheep being lead to slaughter, without addressing these points. Academic performance may just be about the culture of the student, regardless of economic class and parental education. Asian Americans respect education as a family value, a cultural value and as a Confucian value, as written in the Confucian Analects, which all transcend economic class. These values permeate throughout all classes, from the peasantry to nobility in China. The scholar is held in higher esteem than all other individuals in society. Therefore academic achievement is more related to culture than anything else, including economic class.</p>

<p>Blacks should take a cue from Asian Americans regarding education. Use educated Asian Americans, especially from the lower economic classes as ROLE MODELS, instead of making excuse after excuse for the underperformance and underachievement of all blacks, especially the affluent ones from families with graduate degrees and $100k/year in income.This is more easily said than done. To ask blacks to change their culture is to bring forth charges of racism from the flaming guilt-ridden white liberals and the black civil rights profiteers who make a living based in the VICTIMIZATION of blacks, over 150 years after the freeing of the Afro-American slaves. This is a self-perpetuating circular process with excuse after excuse.</p>

63

<p>Northstarmom, please read the following carefully:</p>

<p>[Lawrence Steinberg, B. Bradford Brown, and Sanford Dornbusch released a new book, Beyond the Classroom, that offered a very different explanation from the standard "racism and poverty'' for why different groups perform differently in school. "Of all the demographic factors we studied in relation to school performance, ethnicity is the most important . . . In terms of school achievement, it is more advantageous to be Asian than to be wealthy, to have non-divorced parents, or to have a mother who is able to stay at home full time.'' They found that no matter which school they looked at, Asians got the best grades and test scores, and blacks and Hispanics the worst. The problem was not the schools, but the attitudes and habits of the students themselves. The underachievers didn't fear failure, didn't study as hard, skipped class more often, and blamed their failures on racism. The overachievers didn't tolerate failure, hung out with overachievers, spent the most time studying, and attributed their success to individual effort.]</p>

64

<p>To Northstarmom,</p>

<p>YOU MISSED THE POINT.</p>

<p>Quote from "Beyond the Classroom", </p>

<p>"In terms of school achievement, it is more advantageous to be Asian than to be wealthy....."</p>

<p>That's the point of Lawrence Steinberg's , B. Bradford Brown's , and Sanford Dornbusch's book, "Beyond the Classroom".</p>

65

<p>our schools have the AVID programs also African American Scholars.
Lots of parent and teacher support. We even have a PAASE group ( parents for african american student excellence) that meets every other week.
My daughter interviewed for the AVID program, but they apparently decided the ACE program was a better fit ( Academic challenge and excellence). I think it may be something the school came up with to meet the needs of "kids who weren't living up to potential" but it has helped her a lot and she just received her grades and she has a 3.7! in college prep classes.</p>

66

<p>To Northstarmom:</p>

<p>Prof. Daniel C. Tsui, of illiterate poverty stricken peasant Chinese parents, is a Nobel Prize winner in Physics. Northstarmom, just think about the MEANING of this for a moment. Also, please give us another example of a person in a similar class or peasant background, from any other race or culture, to achieve this international honor winning the Nobel Prize in a pure science, such as Physics, or Chemistry. I would not include the Nobel in Economics, because it is known as a "pseudo science" and I would not include the Nobels in Peace or Literature, for obvious reasons.</p>

<p>As far as the Nobel Prizes are concerned, Prof. Daniel C. Tsui, a Chinese American immigrant with illiterate peasant poverty striken parents fighting famine, floods, drought and political upheaval, won the Nobel Prize in Physics in 1998. He is a distinguished professor at Princeton today.</p>

<p>Please click on the following to read his autobiography and his road to the Nobel Prize:</p>

<p><a href="http://nobelprize.org/physics/laureates/1998/tsui-autobio.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://nobelprize.org/physics/laureates/1998/tsui-autobio.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Excerpts from his autobiography:</p>

<p>[My childhood memories are filled with the years of drought, flood and war which were constantly on the consciousness of the inhabitants of my over-populated village, but also with my parents' self-sacrificing love and the happy moments they created for me. Like most other villagers, my parents never had the opportunity to learn how to read and write. They suffered from their illiteracy and their suffering made them determined not to have their children follow the same path at any and whatever cost to them. In early 1951, my parents seized the first and perhaps the only opportunity to have me leave them and their village to pursue education in so far away a place
that neither they nor I knew how far it truly was.]</p>

<p>[Many of my friends and esteemed colleagues had asked me: "Why did you choose to leave Bell Laboratories and go to Princeton University?". Even today, I do not know the answer. Was it to do with the schooling I missed in my childhood? Maybe. Perhaps it was the Confucius in me, the faint voice I often heard when I was alone, that the only meaningful life is a life of learning. What better way is there to learn than through teaching!]</p>

67

<p>Northstarmom asked,</p>

<p>"Is this because a high proportion of the impoverished students whom you mention have parents who are immigrants (and thus are self selected for having a strong work ethic and a strong interest in taking advantage of the US's opportunities) and also have parents who are professionals? I know that in some cases, immigrants may work low income jobs in the US, but in their original countries were highly educated professionals. They simply lack the English language skills to get professional jobs in the US."</p>

<p>Here are facts by a researcher regarding Chinese Americans in reference to education which may answer your questions. I can't think of anyone more qualified than Prof. Vivian Louie. The following is a recently published book, by the niece of a college roommate of mine, who was born and raised in NYC's Chinatown.. Her name is Vivian S. Louie, Assistant Professor at the Harvard Graduate School of Education. I have known Vivian since she was a child growing up in NYC. She graduated from Phillips Academy, Andover, Mass. and later from Harvard College, and the Stanford School of Journalism with a Masters in Journalism in the 1980s.. She then did a 5 year stint as a writer for the NY Times, after which she returned to her studies at Yale for a PhD in Sociology and a research fellowship at Harvard. She remained at Harvard as jounior faculty. You can read the book. </p>

<p>Please click here for the Stanford University Press:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.sup.org/cgi-bin/search/book_desc.cgi?book_id=4984%204985%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.sup.org/cgi-bin/search/book_desc.cgi?book_id=4984%204985&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>"Compelled to Excel: Immigration, Education, and Opportunity among Chinese Americans" by Vivian S. Louie</p>

<p>Vivian S. Louie is Assistant Professor at the Harvard Graduate School of Education.</p>

<p>In the contemporary American imagination, Asian Americans are considered the quintessential immigrant success story, a powerful example of how the culture of immigrant families—rather than their race or class—matters in education and upward mobility. Drawing on extensive interviews with second-generation Chinese Americans attending Hunter College, a public commuter institution, and Columbia University, an elite Ivy League school, Vivian Louie challenges the idea that race and class do not matter. Though most Chinese immigrant families see higher education as a necessary safeguard against potential racial discrimination, Louie finds that class differences do indeed shape the students’ different paths to college. </p>

<p>How do second-generation Chinese Americans view their college plans? And how do they see their incorporation into American life? In addressing these questions, Louie finds that the views and experiences of Chinese Americans have much to do with the opportunities, challenges, and contradictions that all immigrants and their children confront in the United States.</p>

<p>268 pages, 2004,
ISBN 080474985X paper ISBN 0804749841 cloth </p>

<p>Table of Contents for </p>

<p>Compelled to Excel</p>

<p>Acknowledgments</p>

<p>Introduction</p>

<p>Part One. FAMILY JOURNEYS TO AMERICA</p>

<ol>
<li><pre><code> Mainstream, Suburban America
</code></pre></li>
<li><pre><code> Urban, Ethnic-Enclave America
</code></pre></li>
</ol>

<p>Part Two. HOW CHILDREN MAKE SENSE OF EDUCATION: A FAMILY MATTER</p>

<ol>
<li><pre><code> Ethnic Culture, Immigration, and Race in America
</code></pre></li>
<li><pre><code> Cultures-in-Transition: Gender and Migration
</code></pre></li>
<li><pre><code> "Ending Up" at Hunter
</code></pre></li>
<li><pre><code> A Place at Columbia
</code></pre></li>
</ol>

<p>Part Three. THE SECOND-GENERATION EXPERIENCE</p>

<ol>
<li><pre><code> Parental Sacrifice and the Obligations of Children
</code></pre></li>
<li><pre><code> Second-Generation Identities
</code></pre></li>
</ol>

<p>CONCUSION. Looking toward the Future: A Raceless World or a World Divided by Race?</p>

<p>Methodological Notes</p>

<p>Notes</p>

<p>References</p>

<p>Index</p>

68

<p>"1,877 African American students nationwide scored higher than 1300 out of a possible 1600 on the SAT last year, compared with nearly 150,000 students overall who achieved that score. Minority students with higher SAT scores have become the target of frenzied competition between state and private colleges."</p>

<p>1.877 out of 150,000 black SAT I test takers in 2003 scored above 1300. Only 192 of these black test takers scored above 1450 and only 70 scored above 1500.</p>

<p>These numbers are pitifully low even for the subgroup of all the affluent and rich black SAT I test takers, who presumably are the highest scorers, out 150,000 blacks who took it in 2003. There are not enough high scorers among the richest blacks who attended the best prep schools, went on foreign travel, had parents with graduate degrees and incomes of over $100/year, and all the economic advantages in order to take test prep. This low number of high scoring blacks would also include disproportionately more blacks from immigrant families from the Caribbean and Africa, since 2/3 of Harvard's blacks, who are some of the higher black scorers, are from these immigrant families, and not from decsendants of Afro American slaves. These blacks from immigrant families are also admitted with lower standards and lower SAT scores than the rest of the class at Harvard, or any one of the elite colleges. Over 90% of Harvard's blacks are from the middle and upper economic classes. Harvard's SAT I median score for the whole class is 1500, with the the top quartile (25%) above 1590.</p>

<p>One question that begs to be answered is, "Aren't there enough blacks who are descendants of Afro American slaves who qualify to be admitted to Harvard, the Ivies, or any of the competitive colleges??"</p>

<p>If the answer is "No", then we must ask "Why?".</p>

<p>The most underperforming and underacheiving lower class and economically disadvantaged American black receives little or no benefit from race based AA at Harvard or the competitive colleges.</p>

<p>Race based AA in admissions to elite colleges has done little in closing the racial gaps in academic achievement. These racial gaps have widen in recent years.</p>

69

<p>Correction:</p>

<p>Change $100/year to $100,000/year in the following:</p>

<p>There are not enough high scorers among the richest blacks who attended the best prep schools, went on foreign travel, had parents with graduate degrees and incomes of over $100,000/year, and all the economic advantages in order to take test prep courses This low number of high scoring blacks would also include disproportionately more blacks from immigrant families from the Caribbean and Africa, since 2/3 of Harvard's blacks, who are some of the higher black scorers, are from these immigrant families, and not from decsendants of Afro American slaves. Over 90% of Harvard's blacks are from the middle and upper classes, admitted under lowered standards because of race preferences. There were over 200 blacks admitted to Harvard alone last year with lower SAT I standards, not to mention the rest of the Ivies, the elite colleges and the several hundred competitive and selective colleges using race preferences and lower standards, or a DOUBLE STANDARD, for blacks. There are over 10,000 blacks admitted to the competitive and selective using race preferences amony these several hundred colleges, causing a "cascading effect", which results in a double standard for admissions of lower performing blacks.</p>

70

<p>bumppppppppppppppp</p>

71

<p>bump, bump</p>

72

<p>I'd also like to offer a bit of a testimony as a black student. I'm not sure if this will offer anyone insight into anything, but this seems like an ideal post to place this under. </p>

<p>First, I'll let you know a little bit about me. I mostly spend my free time reading literature and random information articles on the internet. When it comes to music, I just happen to prefer things like the Beatles or Broadway musicals. I don't like namebrand clothing--I simply wear humble, country attire. Despite being raised in the Southern US, I've been told that I speak like a "rich white person." I mostly stay inside my home because none of the activities that my peers partake in really interest me that much. </p>

<p>As a result, I too have been labeled as being "white" by pretty much everyone around me. Ironically, I probably only have two real white friends. The fact of the matter is that I try associate with people of all backgrounds, but by doing so it seems I'm "forgetting where I came from." Just by simply having my own tastes, I've been cast into an excruciating borderline. Many black people that I know are immediately intimidated by me due to this "whiteness" and are quick to cast me aside; while many of the white people I know are openly kind enough, it seems as if there's this line that prohibits any type of serious relationship to occur due to me being, after all, black. Growing up, I spent several days trying to figure out how I've wrong all of these people. </p>

<p>I adjusted to it after a while, but now with the college application process, the race issue that I've dealt with so long has now blown far out of proportion. Throughout my years of lurking CC and checking up on various sources, I decided that a nice, laid-back, Midwestern LAC(either Beloit or Earlham would rock) would be the best bet for me. I presented my decision to my family and the response I recieved was far stronger than I first expected. The first response that I recieved from my family was that they refused to let me attend a "preppy, rich white school."(Remember, this is just by telling them the STATE Beloit is located in and nothing else.) If I were to go to Earlham/Beloit/etc., it seems that I would "lose touch with my heritage." Also, they seem to worry about me going far away from them (which is kind of ironic since, outside of my immediate family, I hardly ever see family members anyway.) This is making me ill. </p>

<p>I could write on about this for the longest time, but I must hurry off to bed. It is nice to read about situations of black students. Cheers.</p>

73

<p>Koopa,</p>

<p>I think you would do yourself a disservice by attending a school with VERY few african americans (I mean anything less than 7%) because you would be limiting your opportunity to expose yourself to african americans who don't think the way those in your hometown do. I get the sense that you don't have many friends and feel isolated from white and blacks, alike. Rather than accepting that as your fate, why not seek to challenge it? Tehre are many, many african americans who feel the way you do and have grown up in such situations. You need to seek them out. You are most likely to find them in liberal schools where they're being accepted and appreciated for who they are...by blacks and whites. My son felt the way you did until he switched schools in 9th grade and found a place where the mindset was dramatically different than what he was used to in his elementary school. Actually, the black parent of a child (very much like you) who switched schools in 7th grade recruited 6 other black families to consider this new school for the very reasons you mention. We were one of those families. The difference was nothing short of amazing.....just a change in culture that brought these kids into a place where they were the norm instead of the exception. And, what happened was very unexpected.....the new black kids (who had been accused on acting too white, as you have) started to actually exhibit more ethnic-center pleasures - they started to "acting more black". Why? Because at this school the white kids were "acting black" too.....because at this school there was no "acting white" or "acting black"....almost like racial lines were invisible. My son actually wrote about this experience in his personal essay...and about how it transformed his life. By the way, this school is one of the top schools in the country with a waiting list to get in a mile long. 20% of the school is African American. You have to seek out places like this in order to find your "home". I don't think your family is right in saying that you shouldn't attend a "preppy, rich, white school". Most of the more selective schools are "white", no matter how you spin it. Though, I have to say (no flames please) that many of the blacks I've met from the midwest have a very segregational mentality.</p>

74

<p>"According to the College Board, 1,877 African American students nationwide scored higher than 1300 out of a possible 1600 on the SAT last year, compared with nearly 150,000 students overall who achieved that score. Minority students with higher SAT scores have become the target of frenzied competition between state and private colleges."</p>

<p>you can figure out what that means. add up the black freshman population of the top 40 universities. they all have an average SAT score of 1300+. now, i know dividing the total black population of these colleges by four is not the most accurate method of finding the black freshman population, but doing that shows that 1,877 are not enough to go around to fill even the top 10 colleges. couple this with the fact that not all 1300+ scoring african americans go to these top 40 universities..</p>

75

<p>According to the 2003 Graduation rates for Div I schools @</p>

<p><a href="http://www.ncaa.org/grad_rates/2003/d1/index.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.ncaa.org/grad_rates/2003/d1/index.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>School Students
Harvard 138
Yale 90
Princeton 81
Columbia 101
Penn 114
Brown 97
Dartmouth 56
Cornell 100 </p>

<p>Total number of African American Freshmen in Ivy League schools in 2003= 765 </p>

<p>According to the common data set (at schools which provided te information the number of african american freshment enrolled in 2003-2004 are as follows:</p>

<p>Princeton 97
Dartmouth 63
Cornell 146
Amherst 49
Williams 55
Swatmore 35
Brown 392 (total African American Undergraduates)
Columbia 463 (total undergrads)
Harvard 496 (total undergrads)
Yale Only provided university wide enrollment by ethnicity @ 7%</p>

76

<p>bumppppppppp</p>

77

<p>Sybbie:</p>

<p>The number for Harvard-496- seems awfully high. The profile posted on the Harvard website has 8.4% African-Americans. There are about 6,500 undergraduates at Harvard. Having nearly 500 students would bring the ratio to 13%.</p>

78

<p>"you can figure out what that means. add up the black freshman population of the top 40 universities. they all have an average SAT score of 1300+. now, i know dividing the total black population of these colleges by four is not the most accurate method of finding the black freshman population, but doing that shows that 1,877 are not enough to go around to fill even the top 10 colleges. couple this with the fact that not all 1300+ scoring african americans go to these top 40 universities.."</p>

<p>I know for a fact this isn't true their average SAT would be well under 1300, more like around 1100.</p>

79

<p>Hi Marite,</p>

<p>I was a little suprised to but here is the link Percentage of Minority and international students by enrollment level</p>

<p><a href="http://vpf-web.harvard.edu/budget/factbook/current_facts/enroll_ethnicity_7.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://vpf-web.harvard.edu/budget/factbook/current_facts/enroll_ethnicity_7.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

80

<p>Thanks for the link, Sybbie.
The figures still do not compute. The 496 is said to represent 8% of the total undergraduate population; 8% is in line with what has been reported elsewhere about African-Americans at Harvard (and slightly more than Yale's). But the total undergraduate population is reported at 6,597. 496 is 13% of the undergraduates. So, something does not sound quite right. It would be nice if there were indeed more African-Americans.</p>