We’ll see since this is the first year of any ED and the numbers aren’t fully released yet…and when they tried to act like the big dog they found out they weren’t the bid dog…just saying, @JHS you may not like the changes but I’m sure UChicago has thought this through much more than any of us on this forum have…and personally I think given there goals, they are heading down the right path.
As a side note, prestige can be represented in many ways, case and point, look at the University of Alabama, it has seem a large rise in the quality of applicants (and its USNWR ranking) over the last decade corresponding to its success on the football field. Prestige is something that can be obtained outside academics.
Conversely, look at Harvard, they have severe grade inflation, and talking to a student there and I quote, “Harvard is as hard as you want to make it”. IOW you can coast through Harvard with a 3.0 GPA and graduate with your degree having the name “Harvard” on it without really working all that hard. Yet the prestige of the name Harvard remains unrivalled, even though clearly the quality of some of its graduates might not be.
“It would be sheer unadulterated folly for UChicago not to have ED/EA when all peer schools do, You make no sense at ll.”
Georgetown and MIT don’t have ED, and we’ve already established that EA is the far less coercive program.
Is what mit and Georgetown do sheer unadulterated folly? They don’t have ED. Is what Chicago did (that got them an 8% accept rate and 60% yield with EA) sheer unadulterated folly too?
@Cue7 If you read my previous post closely, you will see that the way numerous high schools treat EA is the same as ED. They do not support applications to other schools and expect the kids to attend if admitted EA… UChicago does not compete with Georgetown. Only some competition with MIT.
I know some high schools treat SCEA as if it were ED, to give the highest number of students the best chance at one of those four colleges. But the only schools that are in a position to do that are tippy-top private schools and maybe a handful of wealthy suburban publics. It’s not widespread at all. And I have never heard of a high school that treated an EA acceptance to Chicago, Georgetown, or even MIT as requiring attendance.
My kids attended both a famous private school with renowned academics and a largish urban public academic magnet. Both schools regularly had several kids accepted SCEA somewhere. At the private school, kids accepted SCEA were expected not to apply to any other colleges, but that convention did not extend to other EA admissions. At the public school, 90% of kids accepted SCEA somewhere submitted at least one further RD application, and some applied to 10+ additional colleges RD.
First you say “I didn’t concentrate in econ, so I’m not the best to comment on this”. So I agreed with you, whatever data set you have is lightweight and your discomfort is brought on by your relative ignorance of facts and trends on business schools.
All of us have friends from Wharton… and that is so not the point but when it comes to Econ - even Wharton PhDs that I know admit Booth has always been ahead of Wharton. The only 2 places that can hope to rival Chicago in Econ are MIT and Hoover institution (which is pretty much Chicago’s west coast outpost paid for by Stanford). MBA is a a bit different and Wharton has its turn but for 15 years going, Booth had a lead that is now clear for all to see.
Because you have low information, you go conservative and stick to what you have known from maybe 20 years ago. Because you have low information, you are uncomfortable to say that Booth is better. But that does not make your opinion strong - it makes it weak.
Are you serious??? At ~1.6B USD, Booth has the second biggest endowment of ANY business school in the world. Only Harvard has bigger.
Student outcomes? Booth has been number one among employer surveys for almost 20 years straight while Wharton had one problem after another.
The Polsky is the #1 university accelerator for 4 years running now.
I mean seriously…
Booth suffers from the fact that UChicago is not a name brand (vs Harvard or Stanford but not Penn) but the College’s rise is making that issue go away.
@Cue7 You seem to be someone who holds great passion for criticism against UChicago. You call out ED as an unfair practice, but there are other options such as EA presented, unlike a wide majority of ED only schools on the same caliber: Penn, Duke, Brown Columbia do not. Also, as a high school student that applied ED2, I appreciated the viability of options.
For other comments I read on this, to begin, I want to say that in the high schooler’s perspective, ED is a stress savior in a soul-wrenching process. ED asks you to get to know the school, make a deliberate decision, and this often comes down to fit. Uchicago has a specific taste, and people who apply ED know they can belong in this taste. A lot of people think that, based on assumption, by becoming more selective, Uchicago loses its intellectual definer. I can assure you that that is not accurate. I’ve been on the FB page and the 2021 political discussion page for a month now, and this is the most intellectually curious group of people, from long rationally based discourse to expansive insight, I know that the life of the mind is absolutely preserved, if not enhanced. Even so, the rise in UChicago’s recognition has contributed to the gathering of life of mind students in my opinion. I know that, had it been 40 years ago, I would have never considered Uchicago and never had found my perfect fit, a school that appreciates the intense workings of the mind.
@FStratford Where did you find that Booth has the second biggest business school endowment and it is valued at $1.6bn ? . According to the most recent data available (FY 2015) Booth had a $734million endowment and it was ranked #7, behind HSW Kellogg, Sloan, Yale SOM. Unless you found some more up to date data for the endowments of all the b-schools. Also where is Polsky ranked as the top university accelerator?
You say Wharton has been having one problem after another, lol please that is ludicrous.As for the employer surveys you mean the Businessweek one, the same survey that puts Stanford at 14? please…
Also while Chicago has similar name recognition to Penn overall, and of course it is much stronger in Econ circles, in business circles the Wharton name is much stronger than the Booth name.
@coolcheesebagel ED is great to have and all, but Chicago is looking to take 74% or so of its class ED. That is rather excessive. I feel accepting over 50% of the class ED is already too much, but like 74%? it is insane, what is the point? Higher yield? No one is gonna take the yield figure seriously with 74%+ of people coming from ED and besides Chicago already has one of the highest yields.
@penn95 That 734 million does not include the Booth gift which is now estimated to be in the range of 0.8 to 1Billion, because the donation is structured so that is is legally, separately and privately managed. Booth does not have to report the amount because of the special structure of the donation. It is easy to value it though since Dimensional Fund Advisor’s annual performance is not a secret. The whole thing is amazing since Booth, essentially, gets expert advice and fund management for free.
Booth gets the cash flow from it though, just like its in-house managed endowment, so for the purposes of ranking endowments (and the financial muscle they provide) Booth is second only to HBS. There is a huge analysis done on this at poetsandquants as well as Forbes. I’m just too lazy to google right now.
In 2015: Polsky ranked #4 in the Seed Accelerator Rankings Program. Angelpad, MuckerLab, and Techstars landed in the top three. Polsky was 4, Stanford’s StartX, was two spots belowat 6. Only StartX and Polsky were good enough to be included in the ranking
In 2016: Polsky repeated at the top but now they basically tiered/tied them with Angelpad, MuckerLab, and Techstars
Its not just Businessweek, dude. This shows how old your data is when you are still stuck on Businessweek.
Even US News is now a Booth over Wharton kind of fan. For USNews, its H/S=B
Booth is ahead of Wharton in 4 out of 5 of the Major business school rankings and has been ahead for so long now (USN, BW, FT, Econ, Forbes) and for much longer, the employer components of all 5 have Booth across the board doing much better than Wharton. Booth is either number 1 or tied for number 1 or behind some random schools that are not Wharton
If you dont know what has happened to Wharton’s Admissions and Career Management offices, then you really have not paid attention since 1996. Sorry but just like the other poster you are basing your opinion on false information.
@Chrchill@JHS@Sam-I-Am . If you look through the past threads of @Cue7 , you would find that a huge majority of his/her threads are solely to attack UChicago. If you scroll down to “more discussions,” they get more absurd. I don’t even think it’s worth the time of day to argue with someone who clearly spends an absurd amount of time in his/her day criticizing the school.
I’m pretty sure Cue7 is a UChicago alum. Am I right on that Cue?
Having read this board for several years I’ve always appreciated Cue’s comments. (Along with JHS and TooManySchools) It’s not a bad thing to be skeptical. Sometimes it aggravates a little but usually upon reflection I find that Cue has a point. This is even though I am parent with a current UChicago student and therefore someone with a vested interest in seeing UChicago succeed.
@coolcheesebagel. When EA was the only early option at UChicago (e.g. last year), it had all the advantages you cite of ED and none of the disadvantages. The idea of forcing HSers to designate “the one” by November 1st (especially when “the one” has single-digit admissions rates) and to commit without knowing their options is not a kindness to applicants. It’s the strategy of schools who know they can’t compete for the strongest students on the merits. by contrast, HYPS are SCEA because each knows that they’re going to get most (or the right) kids who have other attractive offers. MIT and Georgetown are secure enough in their unique/niche status that they figure if you value what they value, they’ll be the best place for you and you’ll realize that.
Personally, I think in most (but not all) cases, ED preys on the insecurities of HSers. If certainty/closure is what you want, nothing stops a kid admitted EA from treating that result as if it were ED (mine did).
Any time the University makes a change, there are always folks who intensely dislike the new direction and worry about what this will do to the school culture.
Here is one from 1998 about the curriculum. Most of the hand wringing sounds silly now, but it was a big deal then. The article also gives fantastic context to how far Chicago had come in just under two decades
From the other end of the age spectrum I’m with CoolCheese on this. Making an early commitment to your most favored school is just fine in my book. I assume and hope that it means the kid doing this gets a boost as against kids with very comparable applications who have not made that commitment or have made it to another school. I also hope and trust that these really motivated kids are not therefore lowballed on their financial packages. If that is so, it would be a scandal. I can’t believe it is so. I don’t have much sympathy for those kids who want to have it all ways, in effect want to be considered equally by a plethora of elite schools and then simply take the best offer that comes down the pipe. That is the real world, I reckon, but if the ED system is discouraging that behavior I am all for it. Let’s consider the plight of the poor kid who picks Chicago ED and doesn’t get in, whereas that kid might well have got in at a roughly comparable elite school, say Brown or Penn, if not constrained by the choice of Chicago ED. I suppose that counts as a minor casualty in a kid’s life, accompanied perhaps by a lesson that the goods in life are limited and we don’t always get the very best of them. In any event that kid is going to get into a good school somewhere notwithstanding the loss of edge he/she might otherwise have had at the immediate backup school. If a kid like CoolCheese will benefit at all from the ED system, I’m for it, both for his/her sake and for the sake of the University, which will receive a highly motivated matriculant. Good luck, my cool and cheesy friend, you’re headed for a wonderful experience.