<p>So I am choosing between these two schools. I would really like to know what you guys think. I would especially appreciate hearing from current students, particularly minority students to address some of my concerns + questions. I have to admit first that I am leaning more towards Dartmouth, but frankly my reasons for doing so are less based on things I like about the school and more based upon the fact that it is an Ivy League and I <strong>think</strong> it is more prestigious--though if you know otherwise PLEASE comment. If you think prestige doesn't matter than....well...lol...not much you change here.</p>
<p>I really want to objectively determine which would give me a more distinct advantage in a business career and which would be the best social fit for me, as a minority female. There is no need to describe the beauty of the wilderness/the picteresque town of hanover or the harry potter-esque dorms and architecture at U of C. No offense, but I really don't care about this...lol...I've already been on too many tours to count. My questions relate specifically to the career opportunities and the social life at the two universities. </p>
<p>I actually don't have too many concerns about the social life at U of C. I don't really buy the "where fun comes to die" stuff, but I really do have concerns about Dartmouth....I am not big on the partying, drinking + 60% sorority/ fraternity involvement...but would be willing to go there if it would truly provide me w/ any career advantage.</p>
<p>U of C
-Name recognition beyond the Midwest?
-Chicago Careers in Business Program + Booth?
-Is grade inflation real here, does it significantly decrease top grad school prospects?
-How many students end up in HBS, Columbia Business School, or Wharton?
-How many students have summer internships at major firms?
-Is there decent recruitment here from major firms (consulting or ibanking)?</p>
<p>Dartmouth
-Does being an Ivy League make it more prestigious that U of C ( a school ranked slighly higher by USNWR?
-Name recognition beyond the east coast?
-I have a feeling that less students go to grad school right after college here than U of C? Is that accurate?
-Is there really great recruitment + top job placement here for all students or does it sometimes seem limited to certain groups of people (i.e. greek affiliated students or non-minority students)?
-Is the high placement in top jobs due to participation in certain frats/sororities?
-Can the the D-Plan and the sophmore summer actually be non-conducive to having the best internships?
-Are there any groups that regularly do roadtrips to actually leave the area to major cities?</p>
<p>---And Honestly, what is the social life like for black females? Is it realistic for me to think I can tap into the alumni network? Are black females the majority of the african-americans on campus? Would most students say they "self-segregate" at Cutter? Do the vast majority of black female students live in cutter-shabazz? Minority faculty? Some form of a class shopping period to get a feel for professors?</p>
<p>With regard to reputation, Chicago is the more prestigious university. In fact, Dartmouth doesn’t really have a huge name at all, and not that many people know that it’s an Ivy League. It’s difficult to understand as a high school student, but Chicago is the more respected brand name among employers and highly-educated people in general.</p>
<p>Chicago is ranked 14th in the world, ahead of 5 of the 8 Ivy Leagues (Columbia, Cornell, Penn, Brown, Dartmouth). Dartmouth isn’t even ranked in the top 100.</p>
<p>Jeni, the difference between UChicago’s #5 USNews ranking and Dartmouth’s #11 USNews ranking is, for all intents and purposes, meaningless. You’ll get a fine education at both institutions.</p>
<p>As for the “Ivy League” prestige factor, forget it. No one cares anymore. Dartmouth has a strong and loyal alumni base, particularly in the northeast. But its old-money network is not what it once was. By comparison, UChicago’s international network, as well as its pull in Washington, D.C. and, more recently, on Wall Street, is substantially stronger than Dartmouth’s. (Surprisingly, UChicago scores well on the West Coast as well, with substantial alumni connections in the entertainment industry and in Silicon Valley.) But, really, you won’t go wrong at either place.</p>
<p>Phuriku said that, in comparison to Dartmouth:</p>
<p>“Chicago is the more respected brand name among employers and highly-educated people in general.”</p>
<p>As a loyal UChicago grad, I highly disagree with this statement. I think UChicago and Dartmouth are in that next band of schools after Harvard, Stanford, etc. where, at the college level, they are certainly peers. The cultures are different (Dart has a much stronger “finance” culture in the college, where at UChicago, while this is growing, it’s a bit more muted), but you’d have roughly the same opportunities coming from either school. </p>
<p>Again, I think it’s ridiculous to try to differentiate between schools like this. There’s Harvard, Stanford, etc. and then, in the next band, you have a group of schools that are all roughly equivalent. Dart and UChicago are in this next band.</p>
<p>Here’s my take on it: Why would you possibly be concerned about Chicago’s name recognition beyond the Midwest, or Dartmouth’s beyond the East Coast? How many people, anywhere, have any idea what McKinsey is, or BCG, or Morgan Stanley? (Bain, of course, is getting some play, and I’m sure plenty of people recognize Goldman Sachs . . . as an instrument of Satan.) If you are in a room where people recognize the name “McKinsey” – and that’s the room you want to be in – you will be somewhere where everyone recognizes and respects both Chicago and Dartmouth. If you AREN’T in that room, you had better get yourself there . . . and going to Chicago or Dartmouth is a perfectly good way of doing that.</p>
<p>Meanwhile, don’t kid yourself that the University of Chicago name is magic in the Midwest, or that Dartmouth opens all doors on the East Coast. Chicago means more on Wall St., or in Singapore for that matter, than it does in Peoria IL, Dayton OH, Kansas City MO. And ditto for Dartmouth with equivalent cities in the Northeast. Chicago and Dartmouth are both places that mean a lot to connoisseurs, and not so much to the general population. Who cares? The general population is not going to give you a job in consulting or i-banking, and it’s not going to retain your services one you have the job.</p>
<p>Meanwhile, someone should point out that you are asking the questions of someone who ought to go to Dartmouth. It’s fine to do without the Hogwarts-gushing, but if you are not fundamentally excited about Chicago’s “life of the mind” and intellectualism, then you probably aren’t going to enjoy being there much. There are plenty of kids at Chicago with your ambitions – but the ones who like it there are the ones who are turned on by the intellectual aspects of education, too. Dartmouth probably has a higher proportion of people who share your approach, and it doesn’t make them jump through so many hoops to achieve their dreams, or have a culture in which people view those ambitions as less admirable than getting a PhD.</p>
<p>Dartmouth is better recruited for consulting/finance jobs actually by quite a margin. Just like shuttling graduates to top-flight PhD programs is UChicago’s specialty, getting alums elite jobs in high finance and consulting is Dartmouth’s niche.</p>
<p>That was true in the eighties/nineties, for sure. Nowadays, “finance” doesn’t recruit like it once did, at least not at the undergrad level. So unless you’ve got the stats to back up your claim, I’m skeptical.</p>
<p>But I gotta agree with JHS–OP does sound like she’d be happier at Dartmouth.</p>
<p>"Meanwhile, someone should point out that you are asking the questions of someone who ought to go to Dartmouth. It’s fine to do without the Hogwarts-gushing, but if you are not fundamentally excited about Chicago’s “life of the mind” and intellectualism, then you probably aren’t going to enjoy being there much. "</p>
<p>I don’t really understand the jump you made there. I think you misinterpreted what I said. I am simply uninterested w/ hearing more about the physical environment of either school. I never said that I was un-interested w/ Chicago’s intellectualism–infact I clearly stated that I was turned off by what seems to be Dartmouth’s anti-intellectualism (i.e. propensity to drunken kegger parties). </p>
<p>“Why would you possibly be concerned about…”
“Meanwhile, don’t kid yourself…”</p>
<p>I really am just trying to ask a few questions here. All of the questions I asked are of importance to me…otherwise I would not have asked them. But I don’t believe and never stated that going to any of these two will automatically open all doors. Ultimately a graduate from a state school who has the will and determination can beat out any naively overconfident ivy leaguer who has neither. What doors are open depends primarily on me. I am just trying to determine if any of these schools can confer more of an advantage than the other. If one does…great. If not…that’s fine too…lol…There is no need to patronize or belitte my question or suggest that I have a mindset that I do not have.</p>
<p>Prestige and regional differences are one of MANY concerns for me w/ both of the schools. I am not necessarily interested w/ what the layman thinks, I’m wondering if a firm based in New York would feel the need to recruit at U of C, if they have Cornell, NYU, Columbia and Penn and Dartmouth kids at their disposal.</p>
<p>Though, as you can see from the list above, I’m really interested in learning about many things beyond this issue, such as the overall social life for a person like me at both schools–but particularly Dartmouth. As I stated in the original, I see nothing wrong with the social life at Chicago. I’m not sure…what makes you believe that I do not like the intellectualism there.</p>
<p>I guess what I’m trying to impart is that I would appreciate if I could have a few of the other questions answered instead of having my questions dissected.</p>
<p>Um, I can’t really comment because I’m just a high school senior (though in a similar position to you, I also got into both Dartmouth and U Chicago), but something about your original post is worrisome: </p>
<p>I am not big on the partying, drinking + 60% sorority/ fraternity involvement…but would be willing to go there if it would truly provide me w/ any career advantage."</p>
<p>Just how far are you really willing to go? I have no idea about inter-student politics and connections at Dartmouth, but my general mindset throughout this whole process has been that I shouldn’t go to a school in which I’ll have to accommodate myself to the culture. I’m sure not ALL future IB bankers in Dartmouth are part of fraternities or that ALL fraternity/sorority members are future IB bankers, but if the former proves to be even somewhat true (which I doubt, but I still suggest you try to talk to AS MANY STUDENTS AS POSSIBLE FROM DARTMOUTH in order to verify this) then you’ll be sacrificing what could be a great college experience for possible career prospects. It’d be a shame if that happens.</p>
<p>Sorry, I don’t have answers to any of your questions, but I attended both admitted student programs and preferred UChicago by a large, large, large margin. I actually left Dimensions of Dartmouth one night early since I was not having any fun.</p>
<p>I think the reason behind some of the posts here is this:</p>
<p>A great number of the questions you pose are not really issues. For example, does UChicago have name recognition beyond the midwest? Yes. Does Dartmouth have name recognition beyond the east coast? Yes. Do both schools provide amazing opportunities across all fields, and are pretty much comparable on these fronts? Yes. </p>
<p>For the other subjective questions, such as life on campus for a black female and the feel of the school, you really have to visit and talk to a wider swath of current students. You can’t really glean these answers from a message board. </p>
<p>In terms of the prestige and stature of these schools, they really are about equivalent - you need to go by fit. To figure out fit, go to the admit days, or, if not, contact prospective students offices and try and talk to as many students as possible. </p>
<p>Jeni, your response was, I think, telling: If you’re not the sort who likes to have her questions “dissected,” you’re probably not the sort who will like UChicago. </p>
<p>Not trying to be flip here, but you’ve asked, essentially, “where will I fit best?” JHS has tried to answer, working from the information you’ve chosen to share–which includes deconstructing the questions you’ve chosen to ask to extract the subtext embedded within.</p>
<p>Your comments and questions suggest that your primary concerns boil down to the following:</p>
<p>1) Which institution will afford you the best shot at a lucrative career in finance (consulting or ibanking), either through direct recruitment or via entry to high-profile b-school?</p>
<p>2) Which institution will offer you a more satisfactory social life–presumeably one that will enhance your career-building network?</p>
<p>3) Which institution is more “prestigious”?</p>
<p>What you don’t ask is which school will better develop your intellect. So one can infer that this is not your highest priority, at least when it comes to choosing college.</p>
<p>Which is fine, but telling. You see, both schools can launch your meteoric business career. But UChicago will have you reading a fair amount of Plato first. If that “life of the mind” stuff doesn’t appeal, you’ll be in for a rough ride at UChicago, spending much of your time in Hyde Park wishing you’d opted for Dartmouth’s more mercantilist ethos.</p>
<p>Reputations are about equal (and both nationwide; Chicago more world wide), but there are humongous differences in setting and intellectual climate. Have you visited both schools? Sounds like you are a better fit for Chicago if you are not huge on partying. Remember on the Dartmouth tour they tell you Animal House was modeled on frat life at Dartmouth.</p>
<p>1) It sounds like you need to contact someone at Cutter to have your black female at Dartmouth questions answered.</p>
<p>2) The answer to your HBS, Columbia, Wharton question and enrollment of UChicago grads is known only by those MBA schools. However, work experience and GMAT scores are a part of the admission criterion for those programs. A name school like UChicago or Dartmouth with an adequate GPA will win out over lesser name with a high GPA, all else being equal.</p>
<p>3) “I’m wondering if a firm based in New York would feel the need to recruit at U of C, if they have Cornell, NYU, Columbia and Penn and Dartmouth kids at their disposal.”</p>
<p>Why would a NY firm bother with Dartmouth? It is 5 hours from NYC by car without traffic. If you try to fly to Manchester NH or Burlington VT, Dartmouth is still 5 hours by plane/auto. However, most large NY firms have Chicago offices but not ones near Hanover. Depending on the position, the recruiting/interviewing process starts with people from the Chicago office.</p>
<p>In #2 above, I forgot to mention top MBA schools don’t admit directly from undergraduate anymore. I hope you are aware of that. 35 years ago, Wharton and Chicago MBA programs did; Harvard would admit people with a one year deferral; and Columbia was not well known. Now, first year MBA students at top schools typically have 5 years work experience.</p>
This is the one question that we can actually answer with some certainty since Poets & Quants did a study analyzing the top feeder schools at a number of elite MBA programs.</p>
<p>I know some Chicago posters are going to jump on this data and say that the majority of Chicago students aren’t interested in business but that’s BS since if that were true, the few Chicago students who are interested in banking or consulting (which would at least be about 100) would have first dibs on the most elite jobs and they would be getting into HBS and Wharton anyway due to a lack of internal competition.</p>
<p>The fact is that Dartmouth has a lot more firms recruiting than Chicago does and it would be silly to not acknowledge that. Despite being a smaller school, Bain, BCG, McKinsey, The Parthenon Group, L.E.K., Booz, and Oliver Wyman all consider Dartmouth to be a target school while none of them recruit at Chicago as a core school.</p>
<p>The difference might be smaller in Finance but Dartmouth still holds an edge.</p>
<p>Also, there’s too much lag in this data. Students usually work for a few years before grad school, meaning that most students of the entering mba 2012 class at any of these schools started college in 2004-2006.</p>
<p>Out of the top schools, UChicago’s entering classes have strengthened (by generic criteria) the most from ~2005-present. In 2004-05, UChicago accepted about 40-45% of applicants, and now accepts about a third of that number. In a comparable period of time, Dartmouth’s admission rate has dropped less drastically, mainly because Dart always engaged in very competitive, selective admissions. </p>
<p>I imagine the numbers for b-school in ~2020, when the OP will be applying, will be different than the numbers in 2012, whatever they may be. Rough metrics now, for example, strongly point to UChicago improving on their numbers moving forward. Such projections, then, should be incorporated into the analysis.</p>