University of Michigan v. University of Alabama + Honors College

tk, Michigan is a “rich kid school”…Half students are OOS, and most of them pay full tuition. Below are some financial data on the undergraduate student bodies at some universities:

Students from “top 1% families” (household incomes over $630k)
Northwestern University 14%
University of Southern California 14%
Columbia University 13%
New York University 11%
Cornell University 10%
University of Chicago 10%
University of Michigan-Ann Arbor 10%
University of California-Berkeley 4%

Students from “bottom 60%” (household incomes under $65k)
University of Michigan-Ann Arbor 16%
Northwestern University 17%
Cornell University 20%
Columbia University 21%
University of Southern California 22%
University of Chicago 24%
New York University 25%
University of California-Berkeley 30%

Median family income:
Northwestern University $170k
University of Southern California $160k
University of Michigan-Ann Arbor $155k
Columbia University $150k
Cornell University $150k
New York University $150k
University of Chicago $135k
University of California-Berkeley $120

I know I feel like I should be upset that my logic is being picked apart right now, but I’m actually really thankful for it! This is really helpful input. To address one thing though - I guess I mean to say that the people I’d like to hang out with (the social, Greek lifey type of kid) will tend to be far far more wealthy than I am. They take their spring breaks as groups at the Fontainebleau and go on yachts in Miami Beach. I think that’s awesome and maybe they all pooled cash to be able to go but that just seems to be the type of girl I’d spend most of my time with, whereas at Alabama the social Greek lifey kinda folks come from all walks of like just bc the Greek life is way bigger there.

Far more wealthy than I am at Michigan* & the person discussed earlier picked bama over Berkeley bc she got good financial aid cal as an instater !.

“whereas at Alabama the social Greek lifey kinda folks come from all walks of like”

Besides the poor, you mean, as 'Bama gives out almost no fin aid grant money, so the poor (those who don’t get giant merit scholarships) are out of luck there.

njk1999, you should remember that even if many students at Michigan come from wealthy families, that does not mean their parents are going to fund lavish entertainment habits. Besides, there are many students from lower-middle income families. Admittedly, students in sororities tend to come from wealthy to upper income families, but that is likely to be the case in most sororities across the country, including Alabama.

With Greek life the poor are almost universally excluded because of absurd dues, however at Alabama because of those huge out of state tuition scholarships many can afford the Greek life. I know a ton of people in my level of income or lower that are doing Greek life there because they got the huge scholarships @PurpleTitan

OP, it is a very good thing to have friends who are well off. You can stay in their parents condo in Vail, vacation home on Lake Michigan and always have a place to crash in London. We’ve had friends offer us use of their jets during emergencies. Don’t look at it as some competitive thing, look at as a way to get to know some really nice people. Nothing will every replace the friends you will make in college, many of they become lifetime friends regardless of their economic circumstances. Parents love the friends of their kids. Michigan alumni just happen to be very successful.

@njk1999 I completely understand your feelings on this. My dd will be a freshman at Alabama -OOS with the Presidential full tuition scholarship. Money did not play into her decision and she turned down much higher ranked schools, some where she was also awarded large merit $. All were within her budget, so she decided on other factors. Alabama and especially the honors college just seemed to stand out above all the rest in ways that were difficult for my dd to explain. She has been in discussions online with other girls who have also turned down other top schools and will be attending Bama. Her roommates and potential suitemates are all amazing, accomplished young women and one was accepted to at least 1 Ivy (I believe it was 2 but might be mixing up 2 different girls). All were accepted to schools in the top 25 of multiple ranking lists.

The campus and the people at Alabama have a special feel that is hard to understand without being on the campus. It is beautiful and thriving with an energy that was not matched at any of the other 21 schools we visited. The parent support groups are like none others. At this point we through the parent network we have met a dozen or more parents and students from our general area who have nothing but amazing things to say about their experiences. The administration is responsive and the faculty members that we met were accomplished and wonderful representatives for the school. To our dd it feels like she is a part of something special, at the right place at the right time. She has a feeling that these scholarships will not continue forever and to her it is an opportunity to be around some amazingly talented, focued, and like minded students (accomplished, driven, value oriented, with an eye on return on investment - especially at 0 in tuition, and not prestige seeking). The school spirit and the pride that students, alumni, and parents have is contagious. We were surprised by her decision, but also so very proud. She was not surprised and while it was not on her radar initially, she said she knew it was the place for her after our first visit back in jr. year. Do I think that Alabama is the best school in the country, no (or not yet would be a more honest answer); however I do now feel it is the best school in the country for my dd. She had the courage to step out of the box and away from the rankings and look past the snarky comments of her friends and classmates and she has successfully been able to explain all about those intangibles that made this one school shine a bit more, even over top ranked schools that sit higher in the rankings. Interestingly, she has had at least 3-4 underclassmen come up and ask her about Bama since she announced.

You are so fortunate to have amazing choices. At this point it would be difficult to make a bad one. I just wanted to offer counter to the other posters who feel the only reason that top students would go to Alabama is for financial reasons, there are so many other reasons. The scholarships put it on the radar, but once you look a little deeper you realize that they have something pretty special going on there. Roll Tide!

Good luck with your decision.

@TooOld4School I agree with that! I was just afraid that bc I’m middle class I can’t be constantly buying the trendiest outfits or going on their group spring breaks to Mexico and I’ll feel left out or looked down upon. I could be wrong though. @bamamom2021 yes thank you! I know so many people who see alabamas rising status and campus atmosphere and turned down way better schools for it. I just opened this discussion to get more input

“The campus and the people at Alabama have a special feel that is hard to understand without being on the campus. It is beautiful and thriving with an energy that was not matched at any of the other 21 schools we visited.”

I get the feeling that Michigan wasn’t one of the other 21 schools you visited.

@rjkofnovi I mean I visited both and I agree with her entirely

I’m sorry, but without those scholarships, the vast majority of top students from OOS would not be attending Alabama. Virtually no “top student” is going to pay full freight to attend 'Bama from OOS. Then again, they don’t have to.

Well yeah nobody’s saying they’d pay full to go. However, the scholarships pull them to a school they’ve never thought of before, start to fill the freshman class w high stat students (40% with 30+ ACT) and make Alabama a better school academically as the years go by. The campus quality of life is just a huge plus

“Well yeah nobody’s saying they’d pay full to go. However, the scholarships pull them to a school they’ve never thought of before, start to fill the freshman class w high stat students (40% with 30+ ACT) and make Alabama a better school academically as the years go by.”

Perhaps yes, and perhaps no. My point is why take the risk? Currently, you can attend an academically superior school for LESS money than your alternative. Trust me, with either school you’re going to end up loving your college years. The difference is the value and the reality that a degree from one of them will be more respected nationally and internationally over the long haul. I wish you well wherever you decide to attend, but I still say that the vast majority of your future peers would have gone to other more prestigious schools IF the opportunity presented itself financially. Inexpensive college educations are a very powerful incentive for sure. Would I attend attend Alabama for little to no money over a school like Michigan at full pay? Honestly, I would seriously consider it. Would I attend Alabama for equal or more cost than going to Michigan? Honestly, No. The value isn’t there anymore.

@njk1999 have you looked at the cost of dues for Bama sororities? Most of the chapters there have brand new houses, with expensive dues to match. Depends on the chapter but you’re looking at an average of $3100 to a high of $4300 a semester to live out. Some houses are cheaper, but you don’t get to choose the house based on cost. You do get a reduction in your freshman meal plan as you get meals at your house, but it’s a lot of money. Plus then expenses on top for events, teeshirts, your wardrobe, parties, outfits for swaps, going away for the weekend, game day dresses, required outfits for recruitment and other events etc etc etc. Most girls in sororities are from fairly wealthy families that can drop that kind of money on an extra curricular. Yes, you save if you’re paying instate rates, or have merit aid. But there are a LOT of students from OOS who have families paying full freight, plus greek dues on top. There will be many girls with jobs earning spending money, but the bulk of it will be paid for by their parents. Fraternities have different dues, but many houses are similarly priced, although the guys also have other less expensive options. Please do not go in thinking that Bama Greek life has lots of socio economic diversity - it doesn’t.

http://www.uapanhellenic.com/greek-chic.html has costs and lots of other info for 2016

I was raised in Alabama so Roll Tide and all that, and there is something special going on at UA that wasn’t around when I was a student. But Michigan is a better school all round, and is cheaper - AND it’s greek life will be cheaper too I expect. Just do your homework properly before you decide and don’t go off a bunch of pictures on social media for your info. You may want to ask current students/ parents on the Bama and Michigan forums for their average sorority dues for example.

“But there are a LOT of students from OOS who have families paying full freight, plus greek dues on top.”

Is that really true? Are the costs reasonable enough that Alabama would lure, “a LOT of students from OOS who have families paying full freight, plus…” Just curious. I wonder if all of the freebies for top students have hurt UA from getting full pay OOS kids.

I know about the dues @SoccerGirlNYC, I have that all factored into my total cost of attendance at the beginning of the discussion, I should’ve mentioned that. I don’t think there’s a huge amount of socioeconomic diversity but definitely lower middle class and middle class girls exist in greek life because the merit scholarships and working on campus make it possible. A girl I know from my school is an active there and even with dues she was able to afford everything while working on campus, and she comes from a slightly lower level of income than my “middle class” level, if i’m not mistaken. @rjkofnovi there definitely are out of state girls paying full for everything with greek dues–I have met several girls looking to room with me who don’t have Honors College stats whatsoever (so no merit scholarship, really), are planning on rushing, and come from places like NJ, MD, CA, MN, WI, IL.

@rjkofnovi I really have no strong opinion either way about which school @njk1999 should choose. I think they are both outstanding and I just added my own dd’s experience and decision making process to express some understanding to the tough choices that are being made. Alabama is misunderstood by so many prestige seekers and people led by status and lists and rankings.

I do have to respond to your question about full pay OOS Alabama students. Yes, there are many. We are from PA and the cost of Penn State and Pitt instate are higher than the cost of UA OOS even without the scholarships. This didn’t matter to my dd, her decision was not about the money and she could afford all of the schools which she applied and was accepted. She wanted to experience a different part of the country and not stay in PA like ALL of her friends. She wanted a geographic location that was growing and thriving, not dying out. You can say Penn State is higher in the rankings but there was nothing at all pulling her to Penn State, not the quality of the teaching, not the facilities, not the administration, not the other students, not the town; we were not impressed with any of those things. Once you have visited schools that have their act together with faculty that is engaged and focused on students, it is hard to accept meh just because it is ranked higher on some list or another. I have never visited Michigan so I am not sure which category it falls in for us, but it sounds like for you it has those wonderful qualities that set it above the pack as well. If it didn’t, then I imagine that @njk1999 wouldn’t be struggling with this decision.

This is a business and the model seems to be working for Alabama. It is not a business decision Michigan is making, that doesn’t make it wrong, just different. By awarding my dd the full tuition, they have created an ambassador for their school. A marketing bonanza as she wears their logo and advertises their school in a way that no mass marketing mailings ever could. Some are initially interested in the scholarships but then don’t make the score cut offs. My dd has many friends with high GPAs and 10+ APs who were only able to pull a 29or 30 on the ACT or 1290 on the SAT so far. They are not getting any large scholarships at Bama but they are now interested in learning more about it. Then my dd tells them about the huge number of national merit finalists, the number of Goldwater Scholars, the number of kids with ACT 32+, the personalized honors college, the amazing campus and dorms - and they realize that there is more to Bama than just football, greek houses, and southern stereotypes. There are hundreds of kids from Illinois, CA, NY, NJ, PA headed to Alabama, and a huge number are full pay. They are not all big scholarship winners and they are not all trading a quality education for the bargain bin. In just the past few weeks, I have met the families of 3 full pay students from our area and their children are doing amazing things at Bama. The school is getting full pay students and slightly discounted OOS students who are still paying more than the instate UA students.

OP - you can’t go wrong, you have amazing choices. You are obviously very smart and thoughtful and you will do well no matter where you spend the next 4 years. Follow the money…follow your heart…follow your head…only you can decide.

To those in this thread–I was wondering about something I didn’t really discuss in depth earlier. How would you all respond to the fact that although the ranking between Alabama and Michigan is quite different, through the honors program at Alabama and all my AP credits I can start as a sophomore at Alabama and take on a double major + minor, or even do their MBA in five years program in four. This would be opposed to a bachelor’s at Michigan, possibly a double major or major + minor because AP credits aren’t quite so generous.

I guess my question is, is that benefit at Alabama worth it?