<p>I don’t mean to suggest that your daughter hasn’t worked hard, I am not criticising her - if she decides to go to St Andrews then good luck to her although I think Edinburgh is the better university and she will have a more authentic experience there. I think it is a pity that St Andrew’s has the monopoly on American students because there are much better and more interesting places to study at in the UK.</p>
<p>GPA “is” considered where US students are concerned. I’m not sure why anyone would state otherwise. GCE A- Levels have to be translated into “ability” as well when international students apply to American universities. Really, AP’s, SAT, and ACT scores are just one part of the equation, but important all the same. Just like UK uni’s, various factors come into the decision process INCLUDING one’s ability to pay - Americans enjoy international fees just as much as UK uni’s! In fact, American universities also charge students significantly higher tuition fees just for coming from a different state! I have yet to meet an American student that felt that international students were taking their placements away because of their ability to pay higher fees, especially at the Ivy League level. It is much more competitive than that. </p>
<p>American students wouldn’t typically apply to international universities if they didn’t meet the minimum requirements. There are too many quality choices at home that would cost far less. That may be why one wouldn’t meet many American students that have been rejected by a UK uni. The UK is surely proud that their education system is sought after on an international level.</p>
<p>Being personally familiar with both Edinburgh and St. A’s, an education from either can only be excellent. Congratulations to anyone receiving an offer from one… or both! Really, is there anything to be gained by criticising one for furthering their education… in any country?</p>
<p>No, a student’s GPA is <em>not</em> considered by any British university that I know of except St Andrews. The reason for this is because GPAs are not standardised tests; they vary from school to school so they hold no real academic value. I don’t know why St Andrews asks for a minimum GPA but it does the university no credit.</p>
<p>This isn’t about ‘taking places away’ from British students, there is no cap on the number of students a university can take so that isn’t an issue.</p>
<p>So the UK uni’s list GPA requirements for North American students for fun? There are over 300 uni’s in the UK and I doubt all 300 have been surveyed. But why argue over GPA… it’s only one component. There is no need to defend (or criticise) any university requirements… they can set them as they see fit and no one’s opinion really matters. Again, congratulations to all that have received offers. </p>
<p>Thanks txctmico4 for an insightful and respectful response and for the congratulations. My daughter is very happy and is looking forward to going university in Scotland. She has a hard decision to make. </p>
<p>Nordicblue - Just for clarification, St. Andrews isn’t the only British school that asks for a certain minimum GPA.
I have business associates at Kings College and Kings requires 3.3 - American GPA plus APs etc.
I also have a friend whose daughter is at Kingston University and they require 3.0.</p>
<p>I posted that I’d like to know if any American didn’t receive an offer and I have wanted to retract that since I posted it. Ugh - what a negative statement. I have thought a lot about this recently and I do believe that it is a self selecting applicant pool. For St. Andrews the minimum requirement is higher than most universities (both in the UK and the US) to start. Students that don’t meet those high standards don’t apply and, yes, there is the added component of being able to pay the full tuition fee. I guess at the end of the day the numbers just work out and for my daughter, who is over the moon with joy, I am glad. That said I know it isn’t that simple for a Scottish student applying to Scottish Universities and it isn’t that way for American students applying to U.S. universities either but that is another discussion. I just don’t want other students to think any American student or international student is at St. Andrews because they bought their admission.</p>
<p>We are proud to be American (to be honest) but of the many universities visited, researched and applied to our daughter fell in love with two in Scotland. She loves the educational approach of the Scottish system, both the city of Edinburgh and the town of St. Andrews (we visited). She really loved the friendliness of the Scottish people and of course the international student body for both universities. We have heard of so many wonderful experiences at both universities and are looking forward to this journey and are very hopeful her experience will turn out to be as positive. </p>
<p>Having actually worked alongside an admissions tutor at a top London university I can tell you that the GPA is not important at all. Having a high or a low GPA does not tell the admissions tutor anything because as I say, they’re not standardised tests, they’re not proof of ability. In my experience a sizeable number of American applicants to UK universities never even mention their GPA in their UCAS application and they still get in. If you still don’t believe me then call up any admissions tutor and I bet they’d say the same thing regardless of what their website might say.</p>
<p>I struggle to understand why St Andrews is disregarding its own admissions policy by setting such low offer conditions for American applicants. What is the point in asking for APs on the website but not in the offer conditions? Surely you can see that it is a bit of a slap in the face to all British students when Americans/other internationals are given easy offers? If a student has not got 4 or 5s in at least three APs then I think there is a real possibility they will struggle with the workload. St Andrews is in my opinion doing a disservice to American students by not making sure they are able to cope with the work.</p>
<p>I don’t agree with you that St Andrews has higher than most entry requirements, for US students they are rather low and for UK students they’re pretty standard for a top 10 university.</p>
<p>Arguing with someone that clearly has a negative view of St. Andrews is pointless and rather suspicious actually. Did they reject you? I am very sorry if you were. It’s difficult to understand why you are picking on this one uni? If you feel your views are valid about their so-called unjustified requirements, then maybe you should get in touch with them directly and quit attacking the school (and the grateful applicants) on here. This thread originally was about students that have been offered a place or are hoping to. It used to be a pleasure to read. You may have the last word as there will be no more posts from me. (Hopey05… you are welcome and best wishes!)</p>
<p>I didn’t apply to St Andrews, and if I did it wouldn’t be relevant anyway. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with expression my opinions here, any American student going to St Andrews will soon be well acquainted with all its problems so what harm am I doing?</p>
<p>My D was just accepted to St Andrews. We are Americans but live in Germany. I’ve read through this entire thread and there seems to be a lot negative comments on St Andrews, mostly related to it being over-rated and also “easy” to get into if you are an international, especially an American. I’m confused by that, because the minimim requirements for admission are very clearly stated. Plus, I read that the overall acceptance rate is about 10%. Aside from all that, my daughter intends to study Biology in the Faculty of Science. Does anyone have any comments on the Biology program at St Andrews? She also applied to the Faculty of Medicine but did not get accepted, perhaps the first American never to do so, which was quite a blow. I think maybe I’ll market a t-shirt that says “I’m an American and applied to St. Andrews but didn’t get in and all I got was this lousy t-shirt.”</p>
<p>RagingAbbot, it is exceptionally unusual for international students to be accepted to medicine in the UK: every uni has a specific allocation from the government (via the National Health Service) that is their max allocation. This relates to the space for clinical placements during the training. I know of a number of unis who don’t even take their full allocation. There is a special arrangement at St. Andrews and Edinburgh for Canadian students, because of an arrangement for them to do their residencies in Canada, but otherwise medicine in the UK is pretty much a no-hoper for internationals. The only international person I know who is doing medicine in the UK had 5s in AP Physics (all 3), Chem, Bio, Calc (both), and a bunch of others by the end of <em>10th</em> grade. </p>
<p>As for the negativity about St Andrews, from where I sit it looks like a funny mix of snobbery and a put-down of Americans. A common theme is that Americans want to go there b/c they are trying to get close to royalty, but that people from ‘here’ don’t rate the uni. You will notice, however, that this comment comes a lot from English people, not Scottish. If you look at how many English people go to any Scottish uni (hint: a vanishingly small number), you could surmise that there might be some regionalism there as well… The second thing is that a common insult round these parts is that something is being “Americanized”, and it is clear that St Andrews is marketing heavily to Americans (they are on the Common App now, for example, and have a GPA requirement). </p>
<p>It is also true that it is in some ways ‘easier’ for an American to get into St Andrews than for a local student. However, that applies equally to most UK unis (though not Oxford, Cambridge, LSE and a couple of others). As you pointed out, the requirements are clearly published- not just at St Andrews, but all UK unis, and it is pretty cut and dried: if you meet the requirements you are likely to get a place (with the exception of highly competitive courses, where you may need more than the standard requirement). Because American students tend to apply with APs from junior year, they often have an unconditional offer as much as 9 or 10 months before the UK students- obviously that won’t be popular amongst anxious UK students! English students take it as an article of faith that the UK educational system is better than the US system (and can cite many many examples), but they don’t always realize how rigorous the upper end of secondary schools can be. Also, there are some fundamental differences between the Scottish and English systems, starting with the fact that one is typically 4 years and the other is (mostly) 3 years. Interestingly, the dominant model in the US in it’s early days was the Scottish model. </p>
<p>Anyway, be happy for your girl. She will have a really interesting experience, especially if she reaches out beyond the (admittedly large) American student population. </p>
<p>Thanks for that collegemom. She is extremely excited. We’ll be visiting the campus in April. Short flight from Germany. Interestingly, she has also applied to UVA and UCal Berkeley, where it is actually harder to get in when you are out of state, rather than “easier”, even though the tuition is much higher for out of state, as it is for international applicants at St Andrews. She got deferred at UVA and is still waiting to hear back from Cal Berkeley. The early action rates at UVA were 50% acceptance for in state and 20-25% for out of state. Two excellent public schools in America, UVA and Berkeley.</p>
<p>Early action for UVA is actually even lower than that for out of state, because that # includes OOS recruited athletes. </p>
<p>@RagingAbbot </p>
<p>As collegemom says, the chances of an international student being accepted for medicine anywhere in the UK are extremely slim. </p>
<p>However, St Andrews is often thought of as being the third best university in the UK by a lot of American students - which certainly isn’t the perception in the UK. It’s good, but the likes of Edinburgh, Imperial, UCL and LSE are normally considered to be better. This has always been the case - not just since William and the influx of Americans. </p>
<p>On the plus side, if you’ve been residing in the EU for the last three years, and she’s eligible for German citizenship (NB I have no idea how one acquires German citizenship) she’ll be counted for fee purposes as an EU student, so she won’t have to pay tuition fees in Scotland (this doesn’t apply in the rest of the UK, where she’d just be eligible for a fee loan) <a href=“Student Awards Agency Scotland - SAAS - Funding Your Future”>Student Awards Agency Scotland - SAAS - Funding Your Future; </p>
<ol>
<li><p>As St Andrews rejects scores of American applicants every year, being an international applicant from America does not guarantee admission to St Andrews in this or any other universe. Yet, one poster repeats this assertion because he has never met an American who did not get accepted to St Andrews. Well, I’ve never met a Guatemalan who wasn’t a millionaire. Does that make all Guatemalans millionaires? </p></li>
<li><p>Another poster observes, “St Andrews is often thought of as being the third best university in the UK by a lot of American students – which certainly isn’t the perception in the UK.” Actually, two leading British publications – The Sunday Times and The Guardian – rank St Andrews as the fourth best university with the fifth most difficult admission standards in the UK behind only Cambridge and Oxford among general purpose universities. </p></li>
</ol>
<p>See: <a href=“http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/University_Guide/”>http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/University_Guide/</a>; /<a href=“University guide 2014: University league table | Education | theguardian.com”>http://www.theguardian.com/education/table/2013/jun/03/university-league-table-2014</a>.</p>
<ol>
<li> In a Sunday Times’ article naming St Andrews as the Scottish University of the Year, a presumably British reporter wrote the following for a primarily British audience:</li>
</ol>
<p>• “The top university in Scotland, St Andrews has finished fourth overall in our UK league tables this year […] and is The Sunday Times and The Times Scottish University of the Year. It was also shortlisted for the UK University of the Year award.”</p>
<p>• “[T]he institution’s serious academic credentials, from the quality of teaching to ground-breaking research […] put it on the map here and abroad.” </p>
<p>• “Stiff competition, with eight people chasing every place, means St Andrews is highly selective, but those who get in reap the rewards.”</p>
<p>• “Scale and geography are important factors in the university’s appeal. With about 8,000 full-time students who, with staff, account for half the town’s population, St Andrews offers a sense of community larger institutions cannot replicate, along with historic buildings, stunning beaches and renowned golf courses.”</p>
<p>• “With none of the distractions of a big city, students’ social lives revolve around the university and while there may not be much in the way of nightclubs, there are more pubs per square foot than anywhere else in Britain and no shortages of parties. It’s a tight-knit community and cosmopolitan.”</p>
<p>• “While it’s true that St Andrews … isn’t for everyone, it definitely has an X factor.” </p>
<p>I’m really interested in going to St. Andrews in 2015. Since I know it’s my first choice, I thought it would be more efficient to get all the application stuff done during this summer instead of waiting until the fall, when I’ll be more stressed out with school and whatnot. Does anyone know when the earliest is you can apply for 2015? Also, I took the SAT for the first time this spring and got a 2060 (720 CR, 720 Writing, 620 Math). If I waited to apply until the fall, I could take the SAT again and likely get a higher score. Do you think possibly increasing my score to around 2100 would significantly increase my chances of getting in? I’d rather just get it all done now if it wouldn’t make a difference, but also don’t want to lessen my chances by being overeager. </p>
<p>Other Stats:
AP World History: 5
AP English Lang: projected 3 or 4 (crossing my fingers for 4)
AP US: projected 4 or 5</p>
<p>SAT II’s:
World History: 770
English Lit: 730
US History: 730</p>
<p>Not sure what my GPA is, my school is complicated about it. But I have straight A’s except for one B so I’m pretty sure I’m set with that. </p>
<p>What do you think my chances are? Should I hold out until mid-fall to apply and take the SAT again, or am I safe enough to apply as soon as I can, hopefully late summer?</p>
<p>BTW, I’m from the United States and am looking to major in Social Anthropology. I also took AP Calc this year, which was dreadful, and I’m expecting to get a 1 on the exam but just not send the score. Is this really bad?</p>
<p>Assuming you write a passable Personal Statement and your rec is decent, imo you are pretty well set. <a href=“http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/study/entrance-requirements/usa/”>http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/study/entrance-requirements/usa/</a></p>
<p>As an American who has lived in the UK all my life I am amazed at all the posts from Americans about the high fees for international students. Why are you surprised? St Andrews, like all British universities, is a state institution and is financed by the British taxpayer. British students pay lower fees as a result. Americans do not pay British taxes are so are unsubsidized.The USA is also not in the European Union, so Americans cannot claim EU fee status.</p>
<p>It is no different in the USA. Try going to University of Michigan or University of California as an “out of state” student and see what tuition is. It is also easier to get into UC or Michigan as an out of state student as they want the extra money (University of California this year relaxed its admissions standards for out of state students precisely to attract more of them, and their money).</p>
<p>It also is pointless in trying to impress any British university by how “highly ranked” your high school is. Britain has scores of famous private schools as well as the American School in London and so universities are largely immune to suggestions that any school is that exceptional. </p>
<p>Finally, if you don’t want to pay the fees, don’t apply. Alternatively, move to the UK, pay taxes, and apply as a Home student.</p>
<p>Hi! I am worried about my chance of getting accepted…so I am posing this to the internet. I did really poorly on my SATs (1850) and well on my ACTs (31) and have a 4.0 GPA. I also did the IB diploma and had a full rigorous schedule all 4 years of high School. How are my chances? I am submitting my application tonight </p>
<p>Can anyone comment on what the student life is like? My d liked Bucknell but the reputation of it being such a party school has turned her off. Any advice?</p>
<p>If your D doesn’t want to be at a party school, and partying = drinking, I would not encourage her to go to <em>any</em> UK university. UK kids drink a <em>lot</em>, and of course it is entirely legal at 18. It is a fundamental part of the culture, and anybody who tells you otherwise either doesn’t know or is trying to sell you something. </p>
<p>But…I don’t know as how I would make my college decision based on a reputation, esp on something like partying! Not everybody at UK unis “parties” a lot, just as not everybody at Bucknell or Dartmouth or any of the other “party” schools is a hard partier. </p>
<p>St As has a lot of student societies (clubs), and is pretty sporty. It is in a lovely small (v small) town, deep in the heart of nowhere. Think Grinnell. In fact, Grinnell is probably a good comparison on a lot of fronts (though it has only 1600 students to St As 6K undergrads). Although there are a lot of international students St As is actually not very diverse (like Bucknell). A lot of international students are American, and St As is by a long way the UK uni that has done the most to attract American students (you can apply through the Common App instead of UCAS for example, and they care about GPA and activities in a way that most UK unis don’t). </p>
<p>If she is seriously interested it is really, really important that she reads the subject pages for whatever she is applying to study really, really carefully. Although there are more choices in Scotland than England, it is still much more prescriptive than the US, and it is not unheard of for US students to get to the UK and discover that they don’t like their choices. </p>
<p>A visit is pretty essential, imo, and when you do be sure to check out accommodation. First years typically are assured housing in one of a dozen or so halls, most of which come with a given number of meals a week, but after that I think you are on your own (pretty sure they only promise housing for year 1).</p>