“You really think you gained the practical experience by working an internship that I gained from 4 years of college? I find that more than a little insulting.”
I certainly didn’t know everything people with degrees knew. No one knows everything. Even people with degrees
But I was a good writer. I read newspapers, knew what was going on in the community and around the country. I could identify a story important enough to be followed up. During my internship I learned enough of the basics of video production necessary to understand how to put together, say, a simple news story with a soundbite. (It takes about 30 seconds for someone to explain what a B-roll is.) And like I said, I had other skills which came in handy. (Like the time I had to explain to the producer who Jascha Heifetz was – or was able to visually identify Dan Rostenkowski, something the degreed editor couldn’t. These were days before Google.)
As to elite schools, well, they have a long tradition of placing their grads in a great many positions. Jeff Zucker’s lack of broadcasting degree didn’t hurt him much. I bet his first employers figured, it wouldn’t take long for him to learn what a chyron was.
And I’m still waiting for someone to tell me how the internship laws deal with unpaid internships that, when completed, offer academic credit. It seems to me a kind of quid pro quo, but then I’m not an attorney.
^k-mom: internships that offer academic credit considered a “safe harbor” exception to the labor laws since the student is clearly receiving a benefit – academic credit.
Internships/externships are common in law school, for example, when assisting a Judge – perfectly fine as long as it comes with academic credit. If no academic credit, no intern/externship.
One could argue that such policies/practices are also discriminatory, economically and socially. To work for free, one needs other financial support – parents, spouse, etc. Since a larger % of the poor are minorities…
I did an unpaid internship in the state legislature when I was in college, but it was a class. I think it was for 4 credits and I was expected to put in the same number of hours as a class would take. I believe it was graded pass/fail, but I don’t really remember. So for a 4 credit class, I think I went to the state house for 10 hours per week for 10-12 weeks of the semester.
Katliamom, whether your internship would be legit now would depend on the terms. If you worked 40 hours but received no credit for the work you did, it probably wouldn’t be. You said you took another class to qualify as a student, but the intern needs to receive credit for the work being done at the internship, not just be a registered student taking a dance class or a writing class. You’d get the credit for that class if you complete the work for that class, not for doing the internship. At the time you did it, it probably wasn’t as clear a line. My daughter wants to do a Disney College program internship. She must be enrolled in a college, but she’ll be paid minimum wage for the hours she works and not receive college credit. I think to get college credit, the sponsor of the internship must be willing to supervise and comply with the requirements set by a college, perhaps write up what tasks and skills the intern mastered, how the tasks relate to the course, number of hours, etc.
Post #21, to qualify for debt forgiveness in 10 years, you need to make 120 payment. You get no credit if you are exempt from making payments because you have no salary and your IBR or PAYE is $0. You have to actually make a payment to get credit. 120 of them.
The independent study class which I took in order to be able to do the internship required a paper (I forget the length, I think it ended up being something like 10 pages.) I interned full time – so in theory 40 hours – but in fact I often stayed late, or came in early – though that was entirely my call. Then, during a conversation with the HR lady – who ran the internship program – I came up with the idea of writing an “Intern’s Bible” – a kind of a guide how interns could get the most out of their experience. That piece, after many additions, edits and input from both my instructor and the associate news director of that newsroom, became a standard handout at the school and at the station. I’m told parts of it are still in the Welcome Packet incoming interns receive to this day.
I had a great internship experience. I’d like to think the station was ultimately pleased too. We both gained something. I don’t disagree that unpaid internships where the intern gets nothing in return (besides a line on their resume that’s of questionable value) are exploitative.
I can speak of medical students interning in hospital and physician offices. They clearly reduce the productivity of the providers if the latter actually spend time teaching the students. The students are a negative when it comes to productivity and it would be silly to demand they be paid for that.
Back in my day (1989-1990), I had to student teach for 3 semesters for no pay! I did two semesters for my multiple subjects credential, and another semester for my communicatively handicapped credential. If I had not been married at the time, I have no clue how I would have done that. Before then, I was working close to full time to put myself through school, but since student teaching required full time+ hours, I was not able to continue my restaurant job.
I have heard that some student teachers are getting paid now, but I don’ really know for sure.
I have a concern with not being paid for work even for class credit, particularly when you, as a student, ARE PAYING TO BE TAUGHT. Not only are you not being paid, you are paying the school. That is not quid pro quo.
Actually, it illustrates that the market-clearing pay rate for that type of entry-level job is zero or close to it, because there are so many people seeking the limited number of that type of entry-level job that employers do not have to pay them anything (as long as they can avoid too much scrutiny about labor laws).
4kidsdad, I don’t know the “the William D. Ford Federal Direct Loan (Direct Loan)” program. Is it different than a Stafford loan?
I’ve attended a couple of programs on student loans and they made it pretty clear that an actual payment has to be made. One example they gave is if you are on a year long leave from an otherwise qualifying job (a teacher takes a year off for maternity leave, for example). You may not get credit for payments made or excused during that time. The 120 payments don’t have to be continuous, but there have to be 120 actual payments made.
I would not skip loan payments and expect them to be counted toward the 120 because of the information given in those programs.
Unpaid internships are a form of indentured servitude and a disgrace. No amount of lipstick will make that pig less of an abusive practice.
There are no reasons whatsoever that interns could not be compensated. Forced to pay, companies would adjust and make internships both valued and … valuable.
If a type of job is such that an unpaid internship is the norm for an entry level job, that indicates a very unfavorable labor market for employees seeking that type of job. Someone looking into that type of job may want to reconsider and see if there are other types of jobs where entry level jobs are paid that s/he wants to do.
And yet even today, j-schools and broadcast programs churn out kids who paid a fortune in tuition - and most likely worked as unpaid interns - to land an entry-level job filled by 20 years olds who are worked 20 hours per day and who earn $20,000/year. (Metaphorically speaking. Mostly.) They just keep coming…
My d. works for a NY-based media broadcast company; they pay their interns well above minimum wage - pretty much the equivalent pay as entry level admin staff. Their interns are not students – they want full time so more likely recent grads looking to get a start in the business. My d. started as a paid employee, coming in on the admin end of things. I think she just answered an add and submitted a resume.
It’s great that your unpaid internship opened the door for you for a better position… but if that internship has been a paid position… wouldn’t the paid position have also offered a similar opportunity for career growth?
