And for kids who need to earn money (i.e., my kid), it means they are cut out of the internship-to-job pipeline in industries that avail themselves of indentured servants.
Being willing to work for free in exchange for a better shot at being hired, is the job market equivalent of the “casting couch”.
Which “tech industry”?
From what I can tell, a CS major who cannot get a well paid summer internship these days (with the industry in the up cycle) is either not very good at CS, not very good at job searching, or very unlucky.
(Note: founder-type employees at pre-funding startups with no money may be “unpaid” in cash, but should be getting stock.)
I think I’ve heard of CS students working for peanuts at start-ups, but most CS internships pay extremely well. My son made $25 an hour after his freshman year and at least twice that the next summer.
@ucbalumnus - that may well be true for those with experience or extensive programming or coding skills. My D will be starting college in the Fall (MIT) and I would say has above average coding skills - not extensive. She was offered mainly unpaid “internships” this summer which I advised her to turn down. Further, when she attended the campus preview week-end for incoming students, she spoke to upperclassmen and was told it is not uncommon for students to do unpaid internships the summer after their freshman year as well. She wanted to make sure I was aware of that fact since I kicked up such a fuss this summer. I would be more than pleased to find out she is misinformed on this one.
She initially found a paid position teaching programming at a summer camp --when we reviewed the employment agreement the terms were totally unacceptable – salary was “backloaded” until August and tied to some complicated “bonus” scheme which was never mentioned when the offer was made. Perhaps it is different for those with more advanced skills but that’s what seems to be on offer here for the summer in the northeast for kids with her experience. She ended up taking an “internship” with a start-up that has a small stipend.
Her other paid alternatives were the “usual” summer job sort of thing , but I got out voted when DH felt the experience with the start-up this summer might help her for next summer. He may be right - we’ll see.
Well, here is just one example of a company that relied heavily on cheap labor and not only (ab)used the system but crowed about it! Think how they described the intern world in … private!
https://blog.udemy.com/startup-interns/
Fwiw, the questionable practices did not end with the recruiting of interns but extended to a bizarre recruiting process where potential employees had to “work” on projects to demonstrate their capabilities.
E pluribus Unum at a time where the economy did such for recent graduates. Not everybody was wooed and dined by the likes of Facebook or Google. There are many layers in the tech industry!
<but laws="" don’t="" exist-="" for="" the="" most="" part-="" to="" protect="" half="" of="" one="" percent="" folks="" like="" you="" with="" lots="" options.="">
I got my first unpaid volunteer job when I had poor English and I (most likely) had no right to work legally in USA. I never checked if it was legal for me to work. I am very grateful to the gentlemen who believed in me an offered me a JOB. I learned so much during that first gig! When I could legally apply for jobs, I was already “experienced”. My first work was below minimal wage and I was happy to have it.
Unpaid volunteering worked great for me. I strongly advice my kids to start their work experience with unpaid (but interesting) jobs. For example, if you like computers, it makes perfect sense to work as an unpaid computer tech, rather than as a paid something-else (because you could not find a paid job in software industry).
<tech …="" well,="" here="" is="" just="" one="" example="" of="" a="" company="" that="" relied="" heavily="" on="" cheap="" labor="" and="" not="" only="" (ab)used="" the="" system="" but="" crowed="" about="" it!="">
Yet, there are many kids who would love to work for Google and Hollywood, for free. Not so many kids who would love to work in a restaurant for a minimal wage.
Hey, kids have dreams …
<i think="" i’ve="" heard="" of="" cs="" students="" working="" for="" peanuts="" at="" start-ups,="" but="" most="" internships="" pay="" extremely="" well.="" my="" son="" made="" $25="" an="" hour="" after="" his="" freshman="" year="" and="" least="" twice="" that="" the="" next="" summer.=""><i think="" i’ve="" heard="" of="" cs="" students="" working="" for="" peanuts="" at="" start-ups,="" but="" most="" internships="" pay="" extremely="" well.="" my="" son="" made="" $25="" an="" hour="" after="" his="" freshman="" year="" and="" least="" twice="" that="" the="" next="" summer.="">
Agree. I tell my D “don’t worry about money, get your foot into the door. Money would come with experience.”. OK, my D is still in HS. Still, IMHO it is very useful to try to find any gig at a software company (making coffee is perfectly fine, IMHO).
Xiggi, I hope that doesn’t become a trend. When I first graduated from college there was no need for internship, the degree is sufficient. I don’t know when the internships wave started. Now one has to do internships in the summer to get jobs. If we don’t pass law to curb this abuse, it will be worse for everybody, tech or no tech.
For those who wants to work for free, I have internship positions for you. It’s for environmental engineering, aka cleaning the weeds in my sister’s yard.
Dr. G: would that be with the Bureau of Land Management? 
I do not know when it started, but it was part of the landscape a decade ago, and probably in full bloom when the economic crisis developed. It is what it is, and it is surprising that it is so prevalent in an industry that is purportedly awash in cash and potential.
My take on this is simplistic. As long as there will be naïve and gullible people who are prepared to work for free --or close to it-- and believe it to be a rite of passage, the companies will continue to milk the labor cow. It is a vicious circle fueled by the fear to admit that students are not always “employable” and will not stop without … legislation. And it will not stop as long as parents are willing to foot the bill to delay the inevitable.
Unfortunately, students are hardly a concern for our leaders and legislators when issues such as taxability of scholarships have remained unaddressed since the day the idiot legislators made it lawful – you have to go back to many POTUS to find its origin.
@HarvestMoon1 Wow, interesting about your daughter. I am amazed that someone in possession of a sought after skill – coding – would be offered unpaid internships. I’ve seen all kinds of dodgy “opportunities” thrown at kids; you just don’t expect them offered to MIT students.
She will be a freshman at MIT in the Fall. But I agree – this unpaid internship trend is for the birds.
She (and the upperclass students) are being naive about the current prospects in CS. It is not like in the aftermath of the tech bubble crash in 2001-2003 when there were barely any jobs at all to be found. Yes, there may still be employers willing to exploit the naive (like the one in #125), but the current job market is such that they should be easily avoided. (If it is a pre-funding startup with no money, one should be going in as a founder-level employee with stock, although one should be aware that such stock is far more likely to end up worthless than become worth anything later.)
The intern I remember from last summer (paid more than the amount described in #123 between frosh and soph year CS major) did mention other friends (same major and class level) who were being paid even more for their summer jobs.
Would that be a deal offered to a 12 week summer employee?
Sounds like many CS students could use some career advice… you’d think MIT would provide it!
I know a rising CS sophomore at MIT who has research position, but not internship. Really it’s rare to have internship before freshman and before sophomore year. Even Berkeley CS.
^^ The same could be said about Stanford, the current nec plus ultra with its reputation and location in Silicon Valley!
I am really afraid that many are clinging to overly romantic views of the employment possibilities (and internships) or utterly optimist and baseless in the case of Californiaa. I am not sure where in California her HS daughter is located but the reality might be way different than she is presenting in this discussion. But who knows, she might have been raising the next Zuckerberg!
It IS a good sector that still offers great future to highly competent, and even to the average student or coder, but it’s hardly a world where red carpet are unfolded to everyone.
Of course, my views and experience only reflect what I know about the Bay Area and Stanford.
Would not expect it for a normal employee. That is mainly in the context of the possibility of the student being an actual founder (which occasionally happens, although it is rare).
Other possible unpaid work would be volunteering in the context of open source software projects, or work donated to actual charitable organizations. But those are special exceptions – she should not be naive enough to feel that she “needs” to take an unpaid internship at a for-profit company with a generally favorable job market for her skills.