Unrealistic expectations

Parent Cafe
1

<p>For some reason, my mother has convinced herself that it is a realistic goal for me to get straight A's my freshman year of college. Through this expectation, she has decided that she will help me with college costs based on my academic performance (a certain amount per A, and then she'll double it if I get a perfect 4.0). I have never in my HS career gotten straight A's (came close once, but still--), yet she keeps telling me that she's confidant I can do it. I mean I appreciate the confidance, BUT I'm not going to an easy school, and I don't plan on taking flimsy classes (If I get my ideal schedule I'll be taking Calc, Intro to Economic theory, Into to creative writing, and a foundations seminar--The Domestication of Plants and animals, the latter two being writing intensive). </p>

<p>And if it makes a difference, I'll be attending Bucknell University.</p>

<p>How many of your sons and daughters, who I have no doubt are good students, have actually gotten straight A's in college?? Am I just psyching myself out too much? Is it do-able? Any comments would be appreciated!</p>

2

<p>I think your mom is just playing mind games with you. She's "offering to help out" and in reality she is just putting more stress on you. With the conditions she's laying out, I do not think she has any intention of giving you financial relief. It is extremely difficult to maintain a 4.0 in college. My d who never had less than an A in HS is doing great at College. She's made dean's list both semesters, but her grades are more in the 3.5 range. I do not want to sound too harsh on your mom, as she may not be familiar with college grading guidelines (and I am not familiar enough with Bucknell grading system). But a 4.0 sounds a bit unrealistic to me. Also I was never a big fan of giving $ for academic performance. I am sure that as an honorable and responsible student, you will try to do the best you can possibly do. But if mom is willing to fork over some money based on academic performance, a "reward" for Dean's List designation sounds more realistic. I just re-read my post-- so I'll add another thought. Don't obsess about the grades too much- or you can add unnecessary stress to your college years. As long as you are honestly making an attempt to do the best you can do, things will be ok. Good luck with mom.</p>

3

<p>Colleges that dole out straight As like candy suffer from a bad case of grade inflation.
By holding out the promise of $$ for straight As, your mom is ensuring that you will not challenge yourself in college but that, instead, you will be taking gut courses with known easy graders and never try to move out of your comfort level and explore new intellectual directions. This is NOT what college should be about.</p>

4

<p>If at all possible (read, if you can get by without your mom's financial help) don't obsess about grades. Collge is about learning, and grades are an imperfect way of measuring learning. </p>

<p>Go to class. Complete assignments. Ask questions when you're confused. Go to office hours. Read the book. Read and consider every comment you get back on every paper and test. If such comments aren't offered, ask for them. Become passionate about learning, rather than passionate about grades.</p>

<p>It really is better that way.</p>

5

<p>I don't exect my daughter to get straight A's however, I do expect her to do her best work in her classes, take advantage of the resources available to her and to ask for help (tutoring, study groups, speaking with the professor) if she needs it. </p>

<p>while I don't agree with the concept of paying for grades, my child knows that I am making sacrifices to send her to the college of her choice and that she should not disrespect the money given to her for her education (whether it is mine, scholarship money or loans). while I may have a moral and social obligation to provide her with an education, it does not have to be a $40,000/yr private school education.</p>

<p>Based on some of your other posts if your mother has indeed convinced your stepfather to help pay for your education you know that this was probably not an easy task. In the end you your your situation better than anyone as what she had to go through to make this happen for you. </p>

<p>You also know that there are probably a lot of other underlying issues associated with her request. You stated on another thread that you got very little need based aid from Bucknell as a result of your stepfather being well off. You said that he is very controlling toward your mother and did not want to pay for your education. Your parents did not have the money to pay for college and you believe that you have worked too hard to attend a cheaper state school. </p>

<p>All of this compounded I think makes her feel that she has to place stipulations just to make your stepfather happy. I don't think your mother is looking for straight A's as much as she is hoping that you are not a C student or worse, getting a letter of concern based on academics and taking flack by hearing that you could have gotten C's at home. </p>

<p>As sad as it may seem you may have to buckle down because your stepfather is controlling the purse strings and if you don't do well , he probably won't pay for another semester.</p>

<p>Go in with the mindset you are going to do the best you can because in the end that is all you can do.</p>

6

<p>This is an interesting topic.</p>

<p>On the one hand, as others have pointed out, it depends a lot on the grading standards of the college. At Harvard, it would be perfectly doable, for example.</p>

<p>On the other hand, too heavy a quest for grades (=money) can really get in the way of learning, especially intellectual risk taking. And the latter is a key component of a good college education (and one reason many colleges have core requirements and distribution requirements).</p>

<p>My advice? Thank mom, kiss the $$ goodby and move on. You wil have so many more interesting, exciting, challenging things to deal with in college, including having fun. If you personally like the challenge, go for it. If not, just smile and nod? </p>

<p>Is is doable?</p>

<p>On the way to drop off last September, my D mentioned that she planned to get As in school - at U. Chicago no less. I told her it was pretty difficult, in fact, almost impossible, at least based on its reputation, and if she did manage to do so, I'd pay her $200 each quarter she did so. I felt pretty safe, and realize we don't have a lot of spare cash, given private school costs etc. Right after she came home for winter break, I picked up my office phone one afternoon, and heard a voice singing on the other end "You owe me two hundred dollars...". Yes, she got an A- in the mix, but who was I to argue? So far, my innocent challege has cost me six hundred.</p>

<p>But, I can also say that my D just commented that she's not looking forward to going back to 6 hours (or less) of sleep a night when school starts this fall. I said nothing.</p>

7

<p>
[quote]
At Harvard, it would be perfectly doable, for example.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>No, it isn't. Only two students I know of have graduated with straight As in the last 10 years or so. I know that because they both got written up in the papers: they were unusual enough. And they happened to be siblings (one graduating a year after the other). At Harvard, as at Princeton and other colleges, it is not THAT difficult to get A-s. It is much rarer to get As. And getting straight As all four years, well, it gets you written up in the paper.</p>

8

<p>Thanks Sybbie for putting the issue with the OP in perspective for the student and for the rest of us looking at this thread. If there is a major failing on CC it is a tendency to jump to conclusions without knowing the full story, a story that is often complex. The only monetary rewards made for our S and D is to pay for next semester's class books for every A obtained this semester. As our original agreement with them is that books are their financial responsiblity from their own summer earnings, this is a reward that we think is a nice recognition for the hard work entailed in getting the A without making them crazed about getting an A versus getting educated.</p>

9

<p>We do not reward our kids for grades...didn't do it in elementary school, middle school or high school. Won't do it for college either. The bottom line is that sometimes kids work their hardest in the courses they do NOT get A's in. These are the challenges that we hope they will take. The most we have ever done is take our kids out for a nice dinner when the final grades are in and school is out for the summer.</p>

10

<p>And here I thought A-'s were just as good as A's...
I guess I've never made straight A's in high school either! Still graduated Cum Laude and still going to a good school though...
I wouldn't worry about having that pressure on you to make straight A's. Who knows, maybe at the end of the semester you'll have done your best and not have all A's and your mom will still be proud of you and still pay next semester's tuition.</p>

11

<p>I don't believe in money for grades as there has to be some level of intrinsic motivation on the part of the person that is the primary beneficary of the education. No one can care more about your or want for you than you care or want for yourself.</p>

<p>I also believe that in the end these things tend to work themselves out. If you do well then it will help open the door for reseach opportunities, honors classes, scholarships, good recommendations and other perks. IF you do poorly then the situation will remedy it self also while even if you have a 2.0 from an elite school you will still be a graduate of that school however I don't beleive the same doors will open for you. If you continue and fall below an acceptable standard of performance you risk losing scholarship money that you really need, you blow your chances for opportunities and the school will eventually put you out of your misery and ask you to take a break- perhaps permanently.</p>

<p>Most importantly after we all finish throwing in our $.02 on this thread we must come to the realization that we cannot dictate to other people how to raise their kids or spend their money.</p>

12

<p>When I was in h.s., my father distributed $ for A's to us children. It made no difference, plus or minus, for the kids. I happened to be a super-achiever & in love with school from before kindergarten. I performed at exactly the same level before & after the money was given. Same with my siblings, for whom $ was no lure, & who chose to goof off in school. </p>

<p>Before my father's death, he used to give my own children $ for their A's. (I never have; & while I am not strongly against the idea, my family experience taught me that the motivation is mostly intrinsic.) I also did not object to my father doing this, as it is one step removed in blood relationship, which my daughters would more likely see as a reward than as an incentive, & because it was also usually fairly time-delayed. They saw it more as a surprising treat.</p>

<p>As someone said, I grow concerned about rewarding more for product than for effort, & I similarly worked harder on the only B+ I received in h.s. than on all my other courses. The same goes for my younger D.</p>

<p>I would not be in a position to promise a certain amount of $ for college A's. However, if I am in the position later, I would love to provide a financial award or the equivalent not for A's per se, but simply for level of effort/output after graduation. ("Here's <strong>$ for that B+ in that nasty </strong><em>class; an additional $</em>_for Cum Laude at graduation," etc.)</p>

<p>I agree, different strokes for diff. folks. I think one reason I have worried about providing <em>parental</em> money as incentive is that I worry about the subconscious inclination to cheat or otherwise cut corners for purposes of gain or even to please & stay in good graces. So far, this does not appear to have happened with my own children in school, so I wouldn't want to provide future temptation. Cheating continues to be a problem in many colleges, and a huge problem in some high schools.</p>

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<p>All those folks with C's at top colleges perform an important public service. Remember, no matter how smart the folks at your school, 50% will be in the bottom half of the class. Even students at Swarthmore can't escape that fate! (which often comes as quite a shock). Imagine how horrible it would be to have an A minus average and be in the bottom quintile! ;)</p>

14

<p>Doesn't merit aid = money given for A's? :p</p>

<p>I never got money for good grades (more like "a 99? where did the extra point go?" lol) and I agree that the motivation should be intrinsic, which leads me to wonder whether there should be grades in the first place. A good grade doesn't necessarily mean that the student gained a lot from the class, and nowadays so many people choose their classes based on how easy/hard the professor is. There are some elementary and high schools that I know of that don't give quantitative grades- they just give comment reports. Are there colleges that do this? I don't think it's very practical for purposes of applying to Grad schools, but I agree with the reasoning that written feedback is a lot more useful than a letter or a number.</p>

15

<p>While I believe that students should strive for good grades, I don't think getting good grades should be the criterion for rewards. It creates perverse incentives, as I tried to suggest earlier. I'd rather my S got a B in Abstract Algebra than an A+ in Underwater Basket Weaving. I have always told my S to take the most challenging courses he was comfortable with, do the best he could, and not worry about getting the highest grade. As long as he kept up with the rest of the class, that was fine. It has been very liberating for him. It has freed him from having to play safe and boring.</p>

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<p>Underwater Basket Weaving actually sounds quite difficult...</p>

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<p>It would, for my S, especially since he does not like swimming :)</p>

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<p>It would extremely difficult to get straight As (plus or minus, who cares, I'd count an A as an A, even with a minus) at most UC campuses- most kids at places like Berkeley and UCLA had 4.+ in high school, yet the curve is there to limit As to about 15% in many classes-there are many straight A kids who will recieve their first Bs & Cs & even Ds! I think my D will put pressure on herself to achieve and I am sorry your mom is putting that pressure on you.</p>

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<p>At the new parent welcoming address at Williams two years ago, one of the president's primary themes was: Congratulations. They got in. Now, it's time to back off and convince them that it's OK to get Bs, so that they'll take risks by trying something new, or by challenging themselves in an area in which they already feel comfortable. They rose to the occasion and did what it took to get here; they'll rise to the occasion again and excel here, if we let them find their way. </p>

<p>It was good advice.</p>

20

<p>My 2 sons were top students in high school and are at Top 10 universities but we never expected them to earn straight As. We made it clear that we expected them to take challenging courses, work hard,
attend classes, maintain B average or better, and be involved in an activity or two. They were told if they received a C in a class, they owed us money for those credits.</p>