Unsuccessful Candidate Profiles

<p>I believe my son is on the bubble for an appointment to the USNA (his 1st choice). I have interviewed many families who have mids who were appointed right out of high school and in my estimation my son is one solid rung below them (maybe a rung and a half below). My point is that I have a pretty good idea of what a successful candidate looks like. While many people will look at the stats of a kid like mine and the profile of a USNA class as a whole and conclude that he is good enough to get in. I take a more pessimistic view because of the category he falls into. The way I see it, to get an appointment right out of high school you must be a superb candidate. This is because of all the favored groups: Jocks, prior military, targeted minorities, foundation scholarship... these groups compete within themselves. When I look at people who are male and accepted right out of high school the bar looks much higher and this is the group my son is in.</p>

<p>I know this may be painful to recount but here is what I want to know:</p>

<p>Q: For those of you who applied to the USNA right out of high school and did NOT get an appointment what were your stats back then? Please do not post if you were DQ'd due to medical.</p>

<p>GPA/Class Rank
SAT/ACT scores
Sports
Leadership
Volunteerism</p>

<p>BTW: my Son's stats are:
Ethnic: White/German descent
GPA: 3.44uw 4.04w Class Rank: 3rd Quartile (school does not rank, but will give quartile to the SA's)
SAT: 710M 650V (+ a ton of honors and AP courses)
Degree Interests: Engineering, Computer / Systems engineering.
Sports (Class 1A, State Champ 2-mile run, 5th place State 1 Mile)
Tennis Team State Champs, 2nd Place Regional (Singles)
Cross Country Team Co-Captain
Leadership - Team Leader - Church group, Altar Server
Entrepreneur / Small business owner / Software developer earns ~ $2000 a year in software sales - 100% from freewill donations. (<a href="http://www.andrewsoft.net%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.andrewsoft.net&lt;/a&gt;)
Volunteerism - Habitat for Humanity - Senior Class project.
Medical Status: Qualified (#9 Vision sub-category).</p>

<p>Thanks</p>

<p>Hi, ChessDad.</p>

<p>First off, relax. Let the chips fall where they may. The standards change a little each year depending upon the qualifications of the folks applying.</p>

<p>To answer your question, I'm one of those who didn't make the first cut, but was sent to NAPS. As near as I can recall, my stats were as follows:</p>

<p>GPA/Class Rank: 3.2 (I think) / 6 of 32
Ethnicity: Hispanic (not that it matters)
SAT/ACT scores: SAT was 1150 combined
Sports: Varsity Basketball (2 years), Varsity Softball (2 years), Intramural Football (2 years), Karate Club (2 years)
Leadership: President of Computer, Spanish, and Chemistry Clubs, all during Senior Year.
Volunteerism: None.
Medical Status: Required an eye waiver for Myopia (Nearsightedness)</p>

<p>I should point out that in my case, my first two years of high school were simply abysmal. Lousy grades, no sports, and only Karate and Army (YUK!) JROTC as ECA's. It was the incredible improvement across the boards during the last two years (at a different school) that made the difference. I also had one or two well-known folks write recommendations, but I honestly have no idea what weight those carried, if any.</p>

<p>Ok dad here goes; my son did not get in. He was triple Q with a nomination.</p>

<p>1400 SAT
Top 25% of competitive h.s. class
VP of his class
Eagle Scout
Four-year football, track, and weightlifting participant
Scholar-Athlete Award
Natl. Honor Society
All-league in weightlfiting; All-City in Track
Peer Minister
President of Outdoors Club
Worked two part-time jobs.</p>

<p>On the down side we live in a very competitive state/district. The principal appointee was an All-Stater in track and cross country who is now on the cross country team at USNA. DS is at the CGA and very happy with it.</p>

<p>Good luck to you and yours.</p>

<p>ChessDad,</p>

<p>One thing I should have mentioned is that I applied from New York. Some states are more competitive than others simply because of the size of their populations or their proximity to the Service Academy in question. </p>

<p>Despite its small size, I hear that Maryland is the most competitive state from which to apply to USNA (for obvious reasons). I don't know if the same applies to New York, Colorado, and Connecticut for the other SA's, but I wouldn't be too surprised.</p>

<p>CGA which is in CT had 21 from that state in the class of 2009 and 9 in the class of 2010 so it varies widely. Also note CGA does not have geographic quotas. Some states have no cadets and others like Cali, NY, CT, NJ, MA have many.</p>

<p>Chessdad- </p>

<p>I can appreciate the spot you are in- I, too, was there not too long ago- times two!!!</p>

<p>I would gladly offer you our son's "stats," but in the end it really doesn't matter. Sad to say, you either "have" what they want, or you don't. What "that" is changes with each admission cycle. What I can offer is my best advice: </p>

<p>You have really 3 options:
1. Collect, analyze, fret, worry, compare, contrast, and try to "figure out the system"
2. Encourage your son to do the very, very best he can and let the chips fall where they may
3. Forget about it and look elsewhere.</p>

<p>I will make an assumption that #3 is not an option you (your son) are considering. Which brings us back to options #1 and #2.</p>

<p>I have posted this many times before- but IMHO, it is worth repeating to save you unnessary angst. While fact finding is an important aspect to you son in determining IF he wants a service academy, in the end all the analyzing, comparing, fret and worry will do little to move your case forward. If anything, it might cause you to give up or conclude that you "don't stand a chance" when you have no real idea of who you will be competing with in that given class. You frankly never know. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. So IMHO, option #1 is a waste of time.</p>

<p>Which leaves option #2. </p>

<p>The reality is that you either have what the academy is looking for or you don't. The annual profiles give a snapshot of THAT year's class....what your son will face for this admission cycle may or maynot fall within that snapshot....while things stay relatively consistant year to year, some things do change. Like the overall number of applicants....a dip for 2009 and 2010 compared to 2005, 06 , 07 and 08....changes in mean SAT scores, the need for a good trumpit player or quarterback for this year and a running back and tuba player for next. Tons of variables that go into filling the needs for a balanced class.</p>

<p>And before that, your son will have to compete in his congressional district for a nomination- sometimes that can be the biggest hurdle to jump over. And, unfortunatley, even that is no guarentee, for while you need a nomination (in most cases) to be appointed, not all those with a nomination will get offered one. </p>

<p>Then there is DODMERB. Enough to drive any candidate (and parent) crazy. </p>

<p>So my sincerest advice to you would be to first, sit down with your son and make sure this is what he wants before you invest the time and energy that it will take to get through the process. If the answer is "yes," then have your son (and his supportive parents) focus all their attention on making him the strongest candidate possible. Grades. GPA. Class Rank. ECA's. CFA. Leadership. </p>

<p>Don't worry what others will put on the table- concentrate, instead, on what you (your son) has to offer. Make his packet the best it can be. </p>

<p>In the end, even the stongest of candidates (look at Bossf51's son....now in year 2 at the USCGA and very happy)....even with nomination in hand- do not get an appointment for some reason or another. Others will, even some with seemingly less to offer, but with some other "intangible" that is desired.</p>

<p>What I would suggest is using your valuable time in contacting the coaches for cross country and tennis, keeping in mind the USNA places a high value on athletics and physical ability. Have your son make the necessary contact, the sooner the better.</p>

<p>I know it's hard to "let go" of the comparison data- but you will drive yourself crazy in the process if you try and get into the heads of the admissions board. It took me awhile to accept that this process was simply not in my control, therefore trying to control it was an exercise in futility. Put your efforts into that admissions packet, and save some of it to make sure your son has other viable options- plan B, C and even D to fall back on. </p>

<p>Lastly- please keep in mind that as many as 1/3 of each admission class does not enter the USNA "directly out of high school." 1/3 of the class---that's roughly 400 students....have at least another year of education under their belt, be it from NAPS, a PG year, a college or otherwise, not to mention those that have prior service experience in the ranks and file. If you ask me, they have a clear advantage over the kids that enter directly out of high school- that extra year of maturity can be the difference in making it through plebe summer and struggling through it. If USNA is what your son wants, if it is his 1st choice, if you feel that it is worth another year of your time to gain that admission slot, then DO let the admission folks (and your BGO) know that is an option you would not only consider, but accept if offered. That can make a difference for those "on the bubble."</p>

<p>Best of luck- if this is what your son wants, then hang in there. Trust that the admissions board knows what they are doing- they have been doing it a very, very long time. The system does work.</p>

<p>^
Best answer yet. :)</p>

<p>gee, thanks Z!!! :rolleyes:</p>

<p>Even though you might think your son is on the bubble there is no way of really knowing what the board will think They definitely look at strenth of classes, class rank, activities, GPA and your essay. My son is a plebe at USNA. He had a unweighted GPA of 3.89 out of 4.0, only a 1280 on SAT (750 Math 530 verbal) and a 30 on act (34 math 25 verbal). He had varsity letters in football, lacrosse and skiing and was captain of his lacrosse team. His counselor told him his verbal scores would keep him out of the academy. He did write a strong essay which was based on the fact that he lost over 50 lbs to become an eligible candidate for the academy. The essay showed his desire and determination to attend the academy. He recieved a letter in early October that he was academically eligible. However he was medically disqualified from DODMERB twice which slowed up the acceptance process. He received a LOA in early February and his waiver and acceptance in mid March. If my son had listened to his counselor he may not had even applied to the Academy. The admissions board saw something they liked about my son's application and that could easily happen to your son. Good luck. I hope it works out for your son. If he has persistence and determination he could easily be in the class of 2011.</p>

<p>Damn, Wickster! That's awsome!</p>

<p>I got my 3rd rejection from Navy this spring...</p>

<p>GPA/Class Rank:
2.5 84/110 </p>

<p>SAT/ACT scores:
SAT:1420 ACT= 34</p>

<p>Sports: Varsity Volleyball Captain, 3 years Varsity, 1 year varsity track</p>

<p>Leadership:</p>

<p>Sophomore Class Treasurer (01/02)
Auxiliary Team Captain (02-04)
Natural Helper (elected by peers) (01/02)
Natural Helper student trainer (02-04)
Vice President of Spanish Club (03/04)
FCCLA Treasurer (03/04)
Band Secretary/Treasurer (03/04)
8 Year Band Member (96 to 04)
First Chair Flute (02 to 04)
Varsity Volleyball Team Captain (03/04)
Attended United States Naval Academy Summer Seminar (03)
Member of State Knowledge Bowl team (03/04)
6th Grade Outdoor Education Camp Counselor (04</p>

<p>Volunteerism</p>

<p>Volunteer with Vale Elementary (96 to present)
Soup kitchen work (99 to present)
Lunch Buddy at Elementary School (03/04)
Reading Tutor and Mentor for Special Education Elementary Student (03/04)
Math Tutor for Middle School Students (02/03)
Volunteer with Senior Center (04 to present</p>

<p>cadet for 7,</p>

<p>Your GPA and class rank appears to be your problem. With the SAT scores that you have, I would have expected a much better GPA and class standing.</p>

<p>Is there any possibility that all of your ECAs distracted you from your academics? What have you been doing since graduating from high school? </p>

<p>The admissions board also looks at any post-high school transcripts that you may have. They would expect to see you taking the same or similar courses that a plebe would take at USNA. Also, if you don't earn As and Bs in those classes, you are toast as far as the academy is concerned.</p>

<p>ChessDad:
I believe that you should be careful not to express your skepticism to your child.<br>
I, too, had serious doubts that my son would gain an appointment, due to the highly competitive district and state in which we reside. His profile was pretty good, but so are the profiles of many candidates who do not achieve their goal.
He, on the other hand, was positive that things would work out. I was careful to make sure he had a plan B, C, and even D that he could live with, even though he did this only to keep me happy. I proposed this in a way that was supportive and hopeful, but used the phrase "just in case". I never expressed doubts to him, but did discuss them in private with his Dad. His appointment did not arrive until March, and the wait was difficult.
I wish you the best in your son's quest, and strongly urge you to keep positive, at least in front of your son.<br>
This way if things do not work out it will not appear (as least to your child) that you do not think he is good enough, but rather present a untied front of "what is wrong with those guys that they cannot see how great you are; they must be crazy" or words to that effect.</p>

<p>Again, best wishes in your son's endeavors.
CM</p>

<p>greatamerican:</p>

<p>i have no doubt in my mind thats why i was turned down. </p>

<p>ever since my school system's gifted program was canceled, I was bored in school and skated by on minimal effort towards homework and studying...it all felt like busy work to me and i couldnt figure out why i should do it. Now, of course, I realize that that was a very very bad way of looking at things, but the damage has been done...</p>

<p>i spent the past two years prepping at new mexico military institute, trying to get those calc/chem grades up...its hard to break study habits that are 12 years in the making, and it was unfortunately reflected in my gpa.</p>

<p>but! i am still trying. i know i'm smart enough to perform at academy levels, its just taking me longer to learn how.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I got my 3rd rejection from Navy this spring...

[/quote]
</p>

<p>You should change your name to "Boomerang"! ;)</p>

<p>Keep at it, buddy. To be frank, I'm not sure if I would have had your determination. Nicely done. :)</p>