Updated Review of Rochester Institute of Technology

College Majors Visual Arts and Film Majors
1

<p>We just had a tour of RIT (Rochester Institute of Technology) on April 6, 2005. We did an initial tour with my wife about 8 months ago,but we thought we would go back with my daughter. Things have indeed changed in this period , and I thought I would update my review for things that have changed or just recently discovered by me. Due to the length of this review, it will be in two parts. There will also be some comparison between RIT and CMU and Pratt Institute, all of whom were reviewed by me</p>

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<p>After reading a number of negative comments in Studentreviews.com and finding out that they have some of the lowest 6 year retention rates in the nation ( under 60% graduate within 6 years), I wanted to check out the school more carefully.</p>

<li>Academics: As one professor noted, RIT is aiming to be the next Carnegie Mellon within 10-20 years, if not sooner. I can definitely see the similarities. RIT has seven schools and an institute for the deaf. They are:</li>
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<p>College Abbreviations
CAST - Applied Science & Technology
CCIS - Computing & Information Sciences
CIAS - Imaging Arts & Sciences ( design, photography, printing, and imaging science studies)
CLA - Liberal Arts
COB - Business
COE - Engineering
COS - Science
NTID - Nat’l Technical Institute for the Deaf</p>

<p>There are a lot of deaf students on campus taking courses.</p>

<p>Average SATs are 1210, math 620 and verbal 590. I suspected that if you major in science and engineering, you would need a higher math score. I met a few engineering and computer science kids whose average math SAT were around 650-670. If you major in the schools or art, design or printing, the average SATs are lower by about 50 points. Interestingly, for film and animation, the SAT and GPA requrements are a bit tougher. These interviews may not be statistically valid. </p>

<p>Overall, RIT academics is very underrated and underappreciated. They have some top professors. US News and World Reports gave them a 4.1 out of 5.0 in peer reviews. CMU has a 4.3 by the way. Student teacher ratio is around 13:1. This should be contrasted to that of CMU with a 9:1 student teacher ratio.</p>

<p>The school works their kids like dogs. In this way, it is similar to CMU. Make no mistake, these kids are expected to work hard and at a high level. However, that is part of the problem. The students are not quite up to the level ( at least on paper) as their CMU counterparts at least SAT wise.</p>

<p>Most students that I met came to RIT because they didn’t get admitted to MIT, CMU, Cornell, or because they were given great scholarship money, or they lived in the area and didn’t want to attend school far away, or they wanted a major that was only found at RIT. This is not to say that the student body isn’t smart. However, they are, for the most part, a notch or two under what is found in the top schools at least in engineering and science. </p>

<p>I should note that design students are very top notch as are students who major in film and animation. There is a large number of applications for a relatively small number of spots, making their school of imaging sciences very tough to get into. The same can be said for the school of computing sciences and for the school of printing, which has a very sophisticated, great program. </p>

<p>RIT also has some interesting majors that you won’t find elsewhere such as printing, photographic sciences,New Media Design, New Media Printing etc. They are very tied in to Bausch and Lomb; thus, anything to do with photography is especially strong. Other examples are the New Media Program that is a combination of web design and graphic design. They also have one of the finest programs on printing technology in the world. In fact, their printing programs have a number of different emphasis such as graphic design/printing, new media printing, new media/ news, new media/ management, and even have one of the only programs on marketing of media.
Interestingly, RIT will also allow,with the permission of an advisor, other majors that a student wishes if the resources and courses are available. We met one student that combined graphic design, some print media work with business and management.</p>

<p>RIT also has a very strong co-op program where you get real world experience and get well paid for this work. Supposedly, 70% of the students who particpate in co-op get full-time job offers. This is one factor that clearly distinguishes RIT from other institutions. These co-ops are available all over the US and even in other parts of the world.I met a student who wanted and obtained a co-op in Canada. Almost all Co-ops are paid, and students do not pay tuition while on co-op.</p>

<p>AP policy is also very liberal. Generally, if you get a “3” or more on an exam, you get credit. If you want credit in your major, you will need a “4.” I don’t know if they limit the total number of courses that they will accept AP credit. This should be compared to schools like CMU that requires 4’s and 5’s for many exams. Pratt, in contrast, requires a 5 for any credit. For those of you who have kids that have 4,5,6 or even more college courses/AP courses, this can be a big saving or open up a lot of spots for other courses, which is my daughter’s situation.</p>

<p>There are few doctoral programs offered. Thus, most professors are NOT TAs. 80% of the faculty have terminal degrees (compared to that of CMU that has 96% with terminal degrees).</p>

<p>Although the work is very hard, I didn’t get the impression that it was quite the same high level of CMU. I could be wrong on this though. I also didn’t see the same amount of interdiciplinary type of work that goes on at at a school like CMU. However, RIT is flexible on designing majors. Moreover, students can and do take courses in neighboring schools such as University of Rochester for courses that are not available at RIT such as music, and certain languages et al. </p>

<p>Like CMU, RIT is very wired. There are a huge number of computer labs and wireless spots available on campus. In fact, ethernet connections were omnipresent and even found in all lounges, and coffee shops.
I should note that one big distinction is that RIT does NOT have a drama department or school of music, which I wish were there.</p>

<p>I should also note that RIT has changed their liberal arts requirement. They used to require set courses from different areas such as picking from a menu. Now, students can meet their liberal arts by taking almost any liberal arts courses such as found in RISD. This allows a true minor in other areas from the major. RIT even allow liberal arts credit for participating in their concert band or dance shows, which I thought was a great touch.</p>

<p>I should note that some students found that some professors, notably in engineering didn’t speak English. However, most students loved their professors and typically rated at least 90% of their professors good to excellent. This negative comment about some professors were not noted in the schools of art and design.
Overall adademically I would give them a B+. For the schools of art, design, and printing technology, I would change my rating to an “A.”</p>

<li>Campus: The campus is huge. It is much bigger than that of CMU ( and they have almost triple the students too),Pratt, RISD and other schools that I have reviewed. I thought the campus was pretty. However, almost every building consists of red brick, and I do mean almost every building. They don’t believe in diversity of architecture These building are very well made however. If there were a war, I would run to the basement of these building. They also need very little maintenance. This should be contrasted to that of Pratt Institute where many buildings are literally falling apart.
There are nice big green grassy area for the kids to play sports and sit and study ( when the weather allows, which is rare).
They also have tunnels that go from the dorms to various buildings, which was very interestingly planned and decorated by art students. Moreover, they have a new building that houses a great indoor running track, new workout facilities and swimming pool.
In fact, they just added a new floor to their workout facilities with dozens of stationary bicycles, tread mills and more.They also have two indoor running tracks and racquetball courts and backetball courts, all in new facilities. Moreover, many items of equipment are connected to TVs where the student can change the channel or access music.</li>
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<p>I should note that the maintenance on the facilites was immaculate. There was no garbage, graffiti, or dirt found anywhere. They must have little gremlins cleaning up at night. The bathrooms were also nice and clean; however, I missed the little scented devices that I found at CMU.</p>

<p>There has been a number of complaints that there just isn’t anything to do in RIT other than study. RIT is taking this complaint seriously and is working on building a town for students which will consist of shopping, restaurants, fun area etc. This should be very exciting when finished, if it is ever finished. </p>

<p>Overall, I would rate the over all facilities an “A.” As far as campus beauty, I would rate that as “B.” </p>

<p>One further note on academics, RIT has one of the best program for deaf students in the country. Not only is there a great deaf studies program for those that want to be translators, but they have translators in many of the courses. Deaf students can even get notetakers and many more services, which I believe is subsidized by the federal governement. This also provides students with more opporunity to make money by providing their notes to deaf students. Deaf students also can attend RIT at one third of the normal tuition.</p>

2

<p>Part II of Updated Review of RIT.
3.Parking: Although parking is limited as with other schools, it was a lot better than what I found at Drexel and CMU. Since most kids live on Campus, they don't need cars. I would give RIT a "B" in parking.</p>

<p>4.Dorms I did get the dorm tour this time. Although rooms were no larger than that of other compuses that I have seen, RIT does have some interesting thematic dorms. For example, there are art dorms with longes full of drafting boards. Computer dorms with computers and internet hookup throughout. They even provide no smoking floors, floors with people over 21, doors that are both co- ed and single sex dorms and a lot more choices. In addition, upper classmen can get three bedroom appartments and have their own bedroom. In short, if you have a preference, you will probably find a way to be accomodated.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Food: We ate on campus, and all of us liked the food. It was varied and reasonably well cooked. They had a nice salid bar too. I had wonderful grilled chicken and turkey meatballs. I even sampled the stable of student life: pizza. It was surprising very tasty. Overall, I would give them a "B+" in food. However, like most dorm food, I can see this getting old by year's end. One more point about food, RIT is very reasonalble about their food prices. I was able to eat, buffet style for less than $7 per person. This should be contrasted with schools like RISD but charged by the weight of the food, which could make dinners very expensive. However, no college that I reviewed has more expensive cuisine than Syracuse University, who charges almost $15 per person for lunch and even more for dinner.</p></li>
<li><p>Problems: With all these good things, why do they have such dissatisfaction among students and comments. As far as I can tell there are three main problems:</p></li>
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<p>First,is the weather. As one student noted, "Imagine how cold you think Rochester is and subtract 25 degrees." It is very cold and blustery most of the year. Although, the school is very good at snow removal, this doesn't detract from the blistery cold students experience going to class.</p>

<p>Second: This may be the clincher: RIT is a very hard school. Students are expected to work hard. Moreover, there is very little outlet for release. For example, the male-female ratio is 60%-40%,with most females in the school of design (This has improved since my last review). This means that in most science or engineering classes, it is more like 10:1 (male to female). Thus, social life is not that great. Moreover, RIT is VERY strict as to drinking. They have a complete no drinking policy on campus at any of its facilities, dorms or apartments. Personally, I like this policy,but many students don't.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Tuition: Here there is a big surprise. RIT tuition is just around $22,000 per year. Moreover, room and board are also relatively cheap at about $8,100. From a pricing perspective, this school is a deal for a private school. If you are deaf, it is a real steal. Deaf students can attend RIT for about $15,000 per year,which includes all tuition, room, board and fees combined.</p></li>
<li><p>I interviewed numerous students. I have to say that everyone , from the student, to the secretaries , to the tour guides, must take smile pills. Everyone was amazingly nice and friendly. I don't know if it was great training or just nice weather,but we were in awe of how nice and happy everyone was. My daughter even had two professors come up and ask her about her interest in the school. This is a big contrast from Pratt where administrative staff were curt and surly or CMU where staff and kids were somewhat aloof and supercilious, although there were exceptions. I should also note that every student that we contacted loved the quality of the academics and would gladly have come here again. Maybe it was the weather on the day of our tour that influenced them.</p></li>
<li><p>Admissions: I have notes some SAT requirements,but RIT has an interesting Early Decision option. If you apply under the ED program,which requires submission of all materials by DEC 1 and checking off Early Decision on the application, you will hear from RIT by Feb1 or earlier. However, unlike other forms of Early Decision, you are NOT bound by this acceptance. They will send you your financial aid/merit aid package, and you can decide to accept or reject the school after you find out about all aid. If you accept the package, however, you are bound by the decision.</p></li>
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<p>Overall impressions: This is one of those schools that are hard to define. They have a good science and very good art and design program. Their school of Printing is easily one of the top in the world. They also have a great number of choices at to majors. Whether it is up to the level of a CMU is hard to evaluate. However,although there may be a lack of things to do other than work and have LAN parties. RIT is attempting to add more facilities for students' enjoyment such as their new, fabuluous stuedent union/work out facility. They also have hundreds of clubs that span a wide array of interests.</p>

<p>Thus, if you want very good academics, great co-op experience (with pay) at a very good price, this may well be the school for your kids. I really do believe that they will get better and might well acheive the goal espoused by a professor: equal in quality that of CMU or any of the top schools! Frankly, I didn't feel that they were that far away as it is. I should also note that my daughter LOVED the school. This may well be her first choice.</p>

<p>Obviously, my impressions may differ from yours. You should check out the school.</p>

3

<p>First, I noticed some typos in the above posts. I apologize for not proof reading them better.</p>

<p>Also, I wanted to point out that RIT puts particular emphasis on its undergraduate education. Although RIT majors tend to be more "vocationally "oriented and practical than that of other schools, undergrads can participate in research with professors at any of their schools and are encouraged to do so. Research is not omitted from their educational emphasis. You, thus, get the best of all worlds at RIT: a practical, real-world education, paractical applied majors, and the ability to conduct high level research with using great facilities.</p>

<p>I should also note that RIT takes their computers and equipment very seriously by updating all software annually. According to students, very little (of anything) is obsolete, and maintenance on both buildings and equipment is meticulous.</p>

4

<p>I just realized that I left out one important thing: RIT is on a quarterly system. This has good and bad points. The good points are many. One is that there is less material to study for each final. Moreover, if you get a bad teacher, you only have to put up with them for 10 weeks. Also, you can get a lot more interesting courses into the curriculum with a quarterly system.Quarterly system also lends itself well to co-ops.</p>

<p>One bad point is that the quarters fly by. Secondly, you will have a final every 11 weeks. Thirdly, if you participate in the five year co-op program, you will not have the same amount of breaks that other college students have since you will be going to school or participating in co-ops through most summers. Finally, with 10 week quarters, the courses move very quickly. Professors don't have time to get students acclimated. As one student noted, "You must hit the quarters running," If you are sick for even one week, you mist 10% of the class.</p>

<p>Also, with a male-female ratio of 60-40, ladies do have an advantage here. RIT is trying to equalize the ratio.</p>

5

<p>Here is a post by Orion27, who is a student at RIT. I thought I would add this to the thread:</p>

<p>Hi,
I'm a second year Applied Networking/Systems Administration (IT-GCCIS) student at RIT, and I figured I'd respond to some of the comments in this thread. </p>

<p>-Every year RIT's averages for SATs and high school ranks increase. In case you are wondering, I received a 650 verbal/670 math and had a high school GPA of 4.0, ranked in the top 10% of my school. I applied to RIT and no other schools. These scores earned me the second highest Presidential scholarship (there are 8 levels) but not a place in RIT's honor program. I was accepted to that after my first year with a 3.85 GPA, 4.0 PFOS GPA. Enough about scores. RIT seems pretty flexible with admissions. If you are passionate about your major and career goals, lower than average scores won't kill you. RIT is not interested in students who have no goals. The coop system pretty much requires you to begin work in your major right away so you will be ready. The only exception I've seen is the undeclared engineering program, but even that requires a decision fairly early in the program.</p>

<p>-The quarter system forces students to work consistently throughout the quarter. It is easy to fall behind in a class when it is condensed into ten weeks. I believe this is one of the main reasons for low retention (second only to the cold).</p>

<p>-4-5s are required on many of the APs. 3s in sciences, for example, usually won't count. Expect 5 requirements for in-major APs and even then you often have to take a different class, instead of a free slot. (For example, in IT, a passing AP Computer Science test allows you to take Java for Programmers instead of Java Programming.)</p>

<p>-RIT has some of the best facilities around. Our computer labs are current and numerous. Software is usually current or one version old. Hardware is updated every few years. Aside from some basic hardware computer courses where freshman tear down and rebuild machines on a daily basis, I have never sat down at an RIT provided PC and thought it unreasonably old. </p>

<p>-For a large school, RIT has very small classes with kind and friendly professors. The largest class I have ever been in was 60 people. Typically classes start with no more than 30 and by the second or third week they stabilize around 22. I have never had a professor who purposely tried to fail students; most are quite accommodating. The college of computing professors seem especially nice. </p>

<p>-Dorms, like all other facilities, are cleaned on weekdays. Sundays can prove a bit messy, especially when salt and snow is tracked in.</p>

<p>-There is a large international population at RIT. My roommate was from India and he recently met someone from the same block of his small hometown here as well.</p>

<p>-Parking is much better than it seems. While students might disagree on colder days, there are plenty of lots around campus. Freshman are allowed to bring cars. The campus is small enough that you could walk to any building from any other within 20 minutes (except the astronomy lab, that would take about 30 from the other side). On colder days the furthest apartments are unpleasantly far, but busses run regularly and are commissioned from the Rochester metro system. There are routes to the mall as well as between buildings. There are two routes on campus: clockwise and counter clockwise. This ensures you never have to travel more than 50% around campus. Parking passes are free, but the lazy can pay about $25 per year to get special passes to park in the closest lots. These special passes go quick and are held for off campus students, mostly.</p>

<p>-The drinking policy is not as you say. RIT is the most liquid "dry campus" I know of. Any on-campus apartment (RIT has many, many on-campus apartments) with all residents over the age of 21 can have alcohol in them as long as it isn't in bulk containers. Alcohol is banned in the dorms no matter the age of the residents. This applies to the frat houses on the dorm side, but not the new ones on the academic side (as far as I know; I try to avoid frats, so I don't know all of their rules). Also, there is a bar in the RIT Ritz, an eatery in the basement of the SAU. Budweiser trucks are not uncommon.</p>

<p>-The social life is the biggest drawback. The National Science Foundation recently sponsored a grant to determine why IT in particular has no female students. For IT students (the largest major on campus) 10:1 is common, if not optimistic. Also, Rochester is no NYC or DC. There aren't too many places I'd care to visit in the city. Our over 100 clubs help, but membership falls during the Winter quarter for most clubs, skiing and snowboarding groups excluded.</p>

<p>I guess that's all for now. Let me know if you have questions. I'll try to remember to check this board.</p>

<p>*Note: all opinions expressed above are from my own personal experiences and do not reflect the opinion of RIT. I am not employed by the RIT admission office and do not speak for the school.</p>

6

<p>Just a remark on the quarter system. Many colleges/universities still operate on the quarter system, e.g., Stanford, Caltech, Chicago, UCLA, and Northwestern (I think). I have taught on the quarter system and the semester system. While the quarter system can be less forgiving than the semester system, I don't think there's any evidence that it contributes to a higher drop-out rate anywhere. Although there has been a trend toward conversion from quarters to semesters, to my knowledge the main rationale for it has to do with administrative convenience and cost (one less registration period, one less final exam period, one less time per year to have to certify students for graduation, etc.).</p>

7

<p>Added note: All University of California campuses use the quarter system except Berkeley and Merced. Univ of Oregon, Oregon State, and Univ. of Washington are also on quarter system. Stanford Law school is on semester system but considering converting to quarter system (like the rest of Stanford's programs).</p>

8

<p>I just completed my freshman year at RIT in the college of imaging arts and sciences, school of american crafts, metals/jewelry dept. (yes, the school is really that divided up) My advice on RIT: unless you know from the very beginning EXACTLY what you want to do career-wise and are willing to stick to one very rigid major - stay far far away. This is not a MICA or CCA that encourages cross-disclipinary action. In fact, if you're an art student in the crafts school, you can bet you're never going to interact with an art student in the design school beyond freshman year - forget any of the other schools like science or business. Yes they have all sorts of great equipment and facilities but if you're not in the major, you're not welcome for the most part (there are a few departments that are a little more laid back about this...but not really). I was there for a year and never set foot in any academic building but the fine art building (different from the design building). </p>

<p>They abuse their faculty and there is a good deal of bitterness about the backroom politics - although this happens at a lot of schools. I had a couple good professors leave because of the admistrative BS</p>

<p>Beware of TAs and grad students that barely speak English, teaching lower level classes. Even in the art depts. (I had one class where the TA spoke very little English so that she actually had a TA's TA just to interpret/translate. Of course ...his english wasn't top notch either.... this is an extreme example though) </p>

<p>A note about the quarter system: Once you come here...don't bother trying to leave. Trying to transfer quarter credits are impossible. You automatically lose 1/3 no matter what. </p>

<p>A note about the dorm lottery system: Freshmen are gauranteed housing even if that means living several miles away in a half-converted hotel (horrible). Spring quarter of freshman year you apply for next year's housing. If you want tiny cramped dorms again (housing shortage = occasional 3 people in a double room, and lounges turned into temp housing) you will probably be ok. If you want to live miles away in that crummy hotel you will be ok. If however you want to live in the apartments on campus..you basically get one shot in the lottery. Freshmen going into sophomore yr get housing priority so if you don't get that apartment for sophomore year.... you more than likely won't get it after that. </p>

<p>Bring your car! If you don't have one..get one! if you can't get one - it is imperative you make friends with someone who has one! Understand that RIT is NOT in Rochester. Rather it is in a suburb called Henrietta near a mall and some cows. </p>

<p>Campus is all brick..but it's not as ugly as everyone says - it's just a tradition to complain about it. Campus is absolutely immaculate...they powerwash their walkways a lot. Very safe..usually.. however we did have an armed robbery this fall in one of the dining areas. </p>

<p>Registering for classes happens online at 5am if you want to get into the classes you want. (only freshmen deal with this really- upperclassmen once into their majors have less competing for class space)</p>

<p>3 in 10 students are girls. 1 in 3 girls are single upon arrival. good luck.</p>

<p>Rochester is not known to be an art friendly city. Nor does it have any neat shopping/dining/student area like manhattan's village or portland's old port. They tried with Park ave but didn't really succeed too well. On the upside the city's largest adult superstore is across from campus.....</p>

<p>As a foundation arts student I had an 70-80 hr workweek - but this all depends which professors you get</p>

<p>I don't know much about the non-art programs but after freshman yr let me say this: I applied as a transfer student - knowing I'd lose credits - to 7 other schools...just to get the heck out.</p>

9

<p>MMM85, thanks for your comments. I am always soliciting comments from existing students.</p>

<p>Frankly, I do agree, that RIT is not very good at having interdisciplinary courses or the ability to take a lot from other departments. However, since my daughter knows that she wants design and NOT fine art or crafts, this isn't a problem for her or anyone like her. Also, as I noted in my review, RIT is somewhat akin to Carnegie Melon and some other top schools in that you should know what you wants when you get there. RISD also isn't as interdisciplary friendly as MICA or Pratt. I guess if you want to structure your own art education and take a lot of courses from other departments, schools like RIT, CMU and RISD et al. wouldn't be right for you. </p>

<p>In terms of having not enough girls, this is indeed a problem for most technical schools. I would imagine the same can be said of Rensselaer, Wooster Polytech, Polytech of Brooklyn, Cal Tech etc. I do know that RIT is trying hard to remedy the problem,but it still is a problem.</p>

<p>I was not aware that RIT uses any TAs in the art programs even to a limited extent. That I find interesting.</p>

<p>As for working 70 hours a week in foundation, welcome to what most good art schools require. This is indeed very normal for a good program and certainly not endemic only to RIT. IN fact, I am glad to hear that these kids are expected to work hard in foundation year.</p>

<p>Anyway, I am sorry that RIT wasn't a good fit for you. I hope you find what you are looking for in your new school.</p>

10

<p>Taxguy, one of the potential appeals of CMU to my daughter was that students in art could actually complete a non-art minor if they concentrated their courses strategically. (She was actually interested in the posssibility of a business minor, which I'm not sure would have worked, though she has good math background -- maybe she'd have blazed a trail there.) See <a href="http://artserver.cfa.cmu.edu:8080/navigation.jsp?Page=16&Section=12&l1p=16&Level=1%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://artserver.cfa.cmu.edu:8080/navigation.jsp?Page=16&Section=12&l1p=16&Level=1&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>But I agree with your response on the whole.</p>

11

<p>I might add that the School of Design at CMU also offers certain interdisciplinary degrees (outside of the design school), though students in those programs would end up with only 50% of the typical studio preparation in design compared with majors in design.</p>

<p>Also, it's possible for students who are not design school majors to minor in industrial design and communications design. (Might be a good option, perhaps, for business majors or computer science majors). <a href="http://www.cmu.edu/cfa/design/programs/minors/index.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.cmu.edu/cfa/design/programs/minors/index.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

12

<p>When we visited CMU we were told that if you were in a different school, such as art, you couldn't major in design or in another major outside of the school of art unless you were admitted to that school. I didn't ask about minors,which would have been a good question to ask.</p>

13

<p>Two clarifications:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>I probably should have mentioned when I said 70-80 hrs that I was taking the MINIMUM required credit hours. Most people had at least 2 more classes than what I was taking. </p></li>
<li><p>Yes RIT is definitely trying to attract and admit more females. I can't speak for the other depts but that means in the art dept that the talent level of the incoming students is dropping as they start looking at gender of applicants and not so much at portfolio. Just something to think about.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>And speaking of portfolio... I knew a few people who were admitted to the school as an undeclared major and then transferred into the art program during orientation week - without a portfolio. Some programs are a lot more lax about this than others</p>

<p>One positive of the school is that when you do move off campus, housing is very affordable - in fact cheap if you're comparing to many of the other urban schools.</p>

14

<p>MMM85, I should note that what you said about girls also applies to other technical schools. My daughter attends a high school with several magnet programs. Two years ago a great gal applied to MIT and was admitted. She certainly was very competant,but she was the only one from our high school to be admitted. There were several guys with at least as high, if not higher, SATS than she. Some of these other kids were also winners on national science competitions. I suspect all technical schools make it a bit easier for females to get accepted.</p>

<p>As far as the work load, you should speak to people to attended either RISD or especially Pratt Institute. They have the same complaint. Maybe RIT is more work, I don't know. However, I do know that this is a major complaint of many kids in foundation at top schools.</p>

<p>Besides not having enough girls there, how were the academics? Did you feel that you learned a lot academically and grew a lot in your field?</p>

<p>I am also interested in your dorm experiences. I did see the dorms and didn't find them too shabby especially compared to other college dorms that I have seen. I understood that freshmen dorms are on the quarter mile walk from classes. Is this not true?</p>

15

<p>Added note re SAT's and art programs. When we visited CMU some years ago the admissions office had a sheet that reported SAT's for students admitted to each college. The Fine Arts College had the lowest SAT's, Engineering the highest, and business, liberal arts, and others in between. The male-female ratio was also very different across the colleges, so that the fine arts college provided a disproportionately large percentage of the females on campus.</p>

<p>I think you have to read the SAT's rather specifically for art students. Often these are students who decided fairly early in high school that they wanted to specialize in art, and did not focus attention (not to mention taking prep courses and repeated tests) to drive up their SAT scores or, for that matter, their GPA's with lots of AP's, etc. There are, of course, exceptions. Thus, if you look at the SAT's and GPA's of students admitted to the best art schools, they may look "moderate" or even "low" compared to students admitted to the best LAC's or universities. But these are very talented, creative, and smart kids, who are often way ahead of the brainiac nerds in spatial perception and other aspects of "intelligence" that pertain to their own special interests and goals. They are selected for their ability in the arts, not math and science.</p>

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<p>Well said, Mackinaw. :)</p>

<p>I think MMM85 just doesn't like it there for the reasons that he posted. I am not sure that he realizes that the "grass isn't necessarily greener elsewhere," especially at other art schools. I guess if he transfers, he can find a school with a better male/female ratio. I certainly don't fault him for this. However, as a girl that might attend RIT, this would be an ideal situation.</p>

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<p>Damn, I must be tired, I should have said,"However, for a girl that might attend RIT, this would be an ideal situation.</p>

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<p>I'll let you know how my daughter makes out after her first qtr since she'll be starting in the fall. I think being a girl may help her overall if girls are scarce, but I doubt it makes a difference in the design school where there are plenty of girls. I'm expecting her to have some trouble with time mgt since she tends to leave things to the last minute - or more likely, she underestimates how long assignments will take. I was hoping she'd get into the art house so she'd be in the same boat as those around her, but it doesn't look likely she'll get in. </p>

<p>Unfortunately, she wasn't one of those kids that decided early on to specialize in art so she missed out on all those art classes so things take longer. Over spring break, she had to do an oil painting and learned how long oils take to dry (we needed to take the painting home on the plane). She thinks it's funny that her painting just won at the county level and is moving on to the state level in a recent competition.</p>

<p>Regarding SATs, she got a 1200 on her 1st SATs and that was good enough to get into the schools she wanted. She was also in the top 10% of her class and had a 4.0 GPA with honors and AP classes. The kids she met at RITs Design Dept Open House seemed to have similar stats and were accepted at schools like Syracuse, CMU, Penn State, UMiami and U of FL in addition to art schools. The Industrial Design kids may have had even higher stats. Looking at the foundation yr courses, I'm not sure that SATs will really matter. The sheer hours required for all the fine arts classes is more of a problem than the academics. I think skill and perseverance will determine who succeeds and who wants to get the heck out of there.</p>

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<p>Jerzgrlmom:
"I think skill and perseverance will determine who succeeds and who wants to get the heck out of there"</p>

<p>You're right. Except that those that have the talent and drive will want to leave so that they can pursue their interests in a more competitive, skilled environment. RIT art students' average work would be considered failure at many other art schools - ask the foundation faculty that have taught elsewhere. There is a pervasive lack of enthusiasm or ambition that I have not encountered in other art schools. By the way, if you're curious about stats.. I have a 4.0 from RIT, and in high school got a perfect score on the psats, and a 1420 on the SATs. When I decided to transfer I was accepted into California College of the Arts, Massachusetts College of Art, Pratt, and got the highest scholarships at Maryland Institute College of Art, Maine College of Art, and University of the Arts. </p>

<p>taxguy:
First of all, I'm female. So lack of girls has nothing to do with why I transferred.<br>
I don't have much to say about the non-art related academics as I only had 3 liberal art classes, all of which I chose to take online to save time. As far as art, it all depends on what professor you get. Try to get Cliff Wun for 2D Design as he is one of the few that won't sugar-coat. The good 3D Design professor is leaving.<br>
Each student's previous art experience is different. I had a very strong art background when I matriculated at RIT and I don't feel like I have learned much since then.<br>
As for the dorms:
Yes the freshman dorms are on the main walkway (the "quarter-mile"). The school has a very severe housing shortage so don't be too surprised if you end up with 3 people in your double room, and the lounge on your floor converted into a triple. I had a unique situation where I was able to move out of the dorms 5 weeks into the year once all the paperwork went through, as I am 21. (I took a few yrs to work/earn money for school before starting). Other than that I really don't have much to say on the dorms. </p>

<p>My advice: If you're coming to RIT because you didn't get in to other schools or it was your safety school; then you will probably be satisfied and happy here. If you have other options but are considering RIT because they offered you money (this was my mistake) you might want to suck it up and pay the extra money for a better education elsewhere. </p>

<p>BTW everything I'm posting is in reference to the art program at RIT - I hear their computer science dept is pretty good.</p>

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<p>Well, I sure hope my d's experience is better than yours. I don't know much about art, so I shouldn't comment on the quality of the students' work (but I was impressed with the work in the student's gallery).</p>

<p>I don't know much about the jewelry/metals program, but I'm hoping my d enjoys the graphic design and advertising photography classes. She's been doing some modeling this spring and the photographers she has met always speak highly of RIT. In fact, she just did a shoot this past week and this subject came up again. The photographers and one of the magazine editors knew numerous people who graduated from RIT and all were encouraging about the school.</p>

<p>Crowded dorm situations are common on many campuses. Many of the other schools my d looked at only provided housing for freshman or underclassmen. I know my d was hoping to get into the art house but although the housing form said specialty house forms aren't due until the housing deadline, I was told by someone in the art house that the slots were already filled for next year (so it doesn't look good).</p>