<p>
</p>
<p>For you, sure. But no categorical remark works here. As it’s been stated, they two are peers. For me and my friends who chose Duke instead, Duke was the better choice.</p>
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</p>
<p>We don’t know how UNC and Duke compare in that dept. today; and as you stated yourself, Duke (as a “small” private university) taking in “dumb jocks” is worse than a state school like UNC doing so (and it’s not just BB, but FB as well; in the quest for a non-losing FB program, the Duke admin has repeatedly lowered academic reqs. where today, 1/3rd of the recruits only need to meet the minimum NCAA reqs.) - so why even bring it up?</p>
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</p>
<p>Unless, it’s a typo, it appears that Penn has a higher Public Policy ranking (#10 vs #41).</p>
<p>Anyway, Penn is ranked 14th on the basis of non-zero NRC scores while Duke is ranked 20th.</p>
<p>By avg. of all scores, Penn is ranked 9th and Duke 18th.</p>
<p>I’m not stating that the 2 schools aren’t peers, just that Penn is a bit stronger in the strength of its grad programs.</p>
<p>An oh, the cross-registration argument (w/ UNC) was a bit weak as well.</p>
<p>^ Oh, please.</p>
<p>You only brought up the “dumb jocks” angle as a snipe against UNC; but as already stated, that was a weak snipe since Duke has proven to be no better in that regard.</p>
<p>Penn is better for academics and city culture, Duke for weather, basketball and campus beauty. Duke has much more of a preppy, frat and jock influence–more like Dartmouth than Penn.</p>
<p>Yikes, I was hoping Penn was far enough south that the weather wouldn’t suck… but given that everyone keeps mentioning Duke’s weather, that may not be the case ahaha.</p>
<p>UPenn</p>
<p>Academics: A-
Admissions: Most Competitive
Professors: B+
TAs: C
Academic Calendar: semester
Most Popular Majors: Economics, Finance, Nursing
Student Diversity: B+
International Students: 9%
Girls: B+
Guys: B+</p>
<p>Students also Prefer: Harvard, Stanford, Yale
Students also Consider: Brown, Columbia, Duke
Students Rarely Prefer: Cornell, Geirgetown, Northwestern</p>
<p>Duke</p>
<p>Academics: A
Admissions: Most Competitive
Professors: A-
TAs: B
Academic Calendar: semester
Most Popular Majors: Economics, Psychology, Public Policy Analysis
Student Diversity: B+
International Students: 5%
Girls: ?
Guys: ?</p>
<p>Students also Prefer: Harvard, Princeton, Stanford, Yale
Students also Consider: Brown, Columbia, Cornell, Dartmouth, UPenn
Students Rarely Prefer: Georgetown, Northwestern, UNC-CH, UVa</p>
<p>Academically and reputationally, Duke and Penn are peers. Where they differ is in their campus cultures, environments and locales. Between those two elite universities, I recommend one chose based on the following:</p>
<p>1) Financial implications
2) Fit
3) Major</p>
<p>Let me sum up the whole discussion:</p>
<p>Three points of view:
- Duke is better than Penn
- Penn is better than Duke
- Penn and Duke are peers</p>
<p>Useless thread.</p>
<p>alam,
LOL, you could post those observations about many threads on CC. </p>
<p>Anyway, it makes for entertaining reading and sometimes you do learn new stuff. As much as the historical powers want to preserve their positions, things do change and places do evolve. Oftentimes, these direct comparisons have a way of increasing people’s understanding of the differences (or, in this thread’s case, appreciating how few differences there actually are).</p>
<p>Last year or two years ago I saw an article that an Asian boy was rejected by most of Ivy league, even if he got SAT 2400 score and ACT 36. As I remember, he went to Caltech. His father had supported him by giving his job. The main point of the article is why the most of ivy leagues rejected him. That’s the ivy leagues. Is he smarter than some other students in Penn.? Yes, but he was turned down. If he applied Duke, he would be absolutely accepted to Duke. Answer is to think broadly and widely for your future.</p>
<p>^What in the world are you trying to prove? A classmate of mine was accepted to every Ivy League school but was rejected by Duke and Stanford and he had a perfect ACT score and was a valedictorian. From what I’ve observed, Duke and Stanford care a lot more about essays/personality/leadership than any other Ivy League school besides Harvard.</p>
<p>
If your past posts didn’t show equal amounts of embarrassing ignorance, I would think you’re kidding.</p>
<p>First off, I wouldn’t weep for such a kid. Anyone who takes the SAT or ACT after getting a perfect score on the other is someone who clearly has little idea of how admissions works. (And people wonder why some posters characterize Asian applicants as test-taking automatons.)</p>
<p>Second, his rejection most likely has nothing to do with the Ivies (not “ivy leagues” - there is obviously only one of those) being Ivies. Rather, I’d be willing to bet that his extracurriculars and/or essays sucked. Caltech is primarily numbers-driven and would be happy to accept a less than well-rounded student. On the other hand, I doubt he would’ve fared better at Duke than at some of the Ivies.</p>
<p>Finally, there is always an element of chance in admissions. I know someone who got into Harvard but was rejected by Cornell last year. With acceptance rates as low as they are, predictability has nearly flown out the window.</p>
<p><a href=“And%20people%20wonder%20why%20some%20posters%20characterize%20Asian%20applicants%20as%20test-taking%20automatons.”>quote</a>
[/quote]
</p>
<p>People wonder why posters characterize ALL Asian applicants as test-taking automatons. A few outliers shouldn’t give anyone the right to generalize the entire Asian community. Why can’t this person who took the SAT and the ACT after scoring a perfect mark be characterized by his personality and not his race? </p>
<p>Frankly, I’m sick of the veiled criticisms of Asian applicants.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I remember reading this article. Said student did apply and was admitted to Duke:</p>
<p>Despite perfect scores on the SAT and ACT, a LBJ Liberal Arts Academy student failed to make it into his dream schools. </p>
<p>By Laura Heinauer </p>
<p>Austin (TX) AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF </p>
<p>Saturday, April 19, 2008 </p>
<p>Things were going, well, perfectly for Navonil Ghosh up until several weeks ago. </p>
<p>The college-bound LBJ High School Liberal Arts and Science Academy senior racked up more than 400 hours volunteering in local hospitals and libraries. He plays the piano, is a first-degree black belt in Kung Fu and got a perfect score on both the SAT and ACT college entrance exams. Ghosh had mailed out all of his college applications and was just waiting for the acceptance letters to come pouring in. </p>
<p>But the letters that began filling his mailbox were of a different kind. </p>
<p>**The first rejection came from Stanford University in California, but the hits kept coming. From the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. From Ivy League institutions: University of Pennsylvania, Princeton and Yale, where he was wait-listed. But the biggest disappointment came from Harvard University, which Ghosh had chosen as his “dream school” based on the course offerings. Even the Plan II honors program at the University of Texas turned him down. **</p>
<p>“I know this news must be quite difficult,” the letter from UT’s Plan II director said. “This year, however, with our number of applicants higher than any year of the last decade, we have been compelled to make an extremely difficult decision.” **Ghosh did get accepted to the California Institute of Technology, UT, Duke and Rice. **</p>
<p>Rejection letters are arriving in record numbers across the country this year, due to the large number of high school graduates and an increase of those applying to college. </p>
<p>Overall, the acceptance rate for applicants at all colleges in the United States is still about 70 percent — about the same as it was in the 1980s — but acceptance rates at the top 200 schools in the country have dropped, said David Hawkins, director of public policy and research at the National Association for College Admission Counseling. </p>
<p>He said three factors have contributed to this year’s historically low acceptance rates at the more selective schools. First, there are about 3.3 million students graduating from high school this spring, according to the Department of Education, which is the largest number of graduates seen in recent years. </p>
<p>Second, though there have been graduating classes nearly this big in the 1970s, for example, the number of students applying to college — now estimated to be 60 percent to 65 percent — is higher than ever. Finally, he said, students are sending more applications than they ever have, particularly to the most highly selective schools, due largely to the ease of submitting applications over the Internet. </p>
<p>The surge likely won’t get any better, he said. </p>
<p>“Actually, we’re projected to have even more students graduating,” he said. “Because we don’t see the tendency to submit more applications tapering off any, it’s probably going to be even more chaotic. However, it is important to keep in mind that the overall acceptance rate isn’t dropping, and there is space out there.” </p>
<p>Caitlin Cash, an 18-year-old Bowie High School senior, said she thought of UT as a backup school and didn’t apply to any honors programs there. UT ended up being the only school of six she applied to that accepted her. </p>
<p>“I’m in the top 1½ (percent) to 2 percent of my class. I’m a varsity soccer player. I mentor eighth-grade girls. I’m the Student Council vice president and French Club president,” Cash said. “I was extremely surprised. I was like, somehow, somewhere, they’ve messed up.” </p>
<p>Cory Liu, a 17-year-old senior at the LBJ academy, said he also had a tough time getting into some of the elite colleges this year, despite scoring 2240 on the SAT and getting a 4.2 grade point average on a 4.8 scale. </p>
<p>Of the 11 colleges he applied to, only two accepted him: the University of Chicago and UT, which admitted him into a summer program for students who didn’t make it into the fall class. </p>
<p>Liu, who was president of his high school’s Youth and Government Club, said he’ll likely go to Chicago, which also reported a drop in its acceptance rate this year, from 35 percent to 27 percent. </p>
<p>“I knew it was increasingly competitive, so I tried not to get my hopes unreasonably high. But it was still disappointing,” Liu said. “I am very happy that I got into the University of Chicago.” </p>
<p>Harvard officials said they rejected a record 93 out of every 100 students who applied. Officials at Yale, Dartmouth and Brown universities said they also turned away a record number of applicants. </p>
<p>“We had an increase that was close to 20 percent in the number of applicants this year,” said Marilyn McGrath, Harvard’s director of admissions. She said it was because Harvard, which expects a fall freshman class of 1,660, increased scholarship opportunities and cut its early admissions process for the first time this year. “It was a very difficult year, because we had not only a large number of applicants, but they were also exceptional.” </p>
<p>It is not clear how many students were able to score both a perfect 2400 on the SAT and 36 on the ACT, because the tests are scored by different companies. But McGrath said fewer than 1 percent of Harvard applicants, 254 of 27,462, got a perfect 2,400 on the SAT. She said 3,368 applicants were ranked first in their class. </p>
<p>Shannon Duffy, a college counselor at Bowie, said she has noticed more college aspirants this year and had quite a few surprises over who did not get into their top picks. She said the trend has affected schools such as St. Edward’s and Texas State universities. </p>
<p>“They’ve been bombarded with late applications,” Duffy said, after recently speaking with a college admissions counselors at both schools. “Next, I would say students need to broaden their safety schools and really make sure they do a good job applying to them.” </p>
<p>“It was disappointing to know I did my best on those two tests, got the best possible score and it still wasn’t good enough,” said Ghosh, who is fourth in his graduating class. Ghosh, who is interested in biomedical engineering and medical school, said he is seriously considering CalTech and Rice. </p>
<p>Ghosh’s father, Nirmalendu Ghosh, said he is also upset about the slew of rejections. He quit his job three years ago so he could help shuttle his son to extracurricular activities, including to work at a UT research lab that he knew would impress college admissions officers. </p>
<p>“My son was devastated, and I was really sad,” he said, recalling the day they got the letter from Harvard. “My son told me he could not study any more and went to bed. I could not sleep that whole night.” </p>
<p>Ghosh’s high school teachers were surprised as well. They said it has been a tough year for all of the students at the school. Most students in the academy, one of the Austin district’s most highly regarded magnet programs, apply to college. </p>
<p>This year, however, the white board where students traditionally hang their rejection letters is more full than usual. The words, “April is the cruelest month,” scrawled in red between all the letters, sum up many students’ feelings. </p>
<p>“Navonil is a really great, hardworking, serious student,” said Jason Flowers, who was Ghosh’s history teacher last year. “He does kind of stand out. I think we were all surprised he didn’t get into any of the Ivys … But one thing we’ve learned is that the admissions game can be very unpredictable.”</p>
<p>
Took the words right out of my mouth. Except you said it more eloquently than I could have. Very nice :)</p>
<p>Wait, so what is our conclusion here, UPenn cares more about essays or Duke cares more about essays? I’m confused.
My UPenn essay was a little risky, but my Duke essay was a little boring (or at least I’m assuming it was, because I don’t even remember what I wrote about anymore), so I don’t know. Ughhh. April.</p>
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</p>
<p>They care about the same - it’s one aspect of your application. Different schools need different stdentd though, so you never know.</p>
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<p>Uh-huh. That’s the only reason Harvard was his dream school, honest! If he said that in his essays, I’d reject him too.</p>
<p>Please carefully read the following report;</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/873890-comparing-rankings-universities-liberal-arts-colleges.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/873890-comparing-rankings-universities-liberal-arts-colleges.html</a></p>
<pre><code> “A Revealed Preference Ranking of U.S. Colleges and Universities”
</code></pre>
<p>Christopher Avery
Harvard University - John F. Kennedy School of Government; National Bureau of Economic Research (NBER)</p>
<p>Mark E. Glickman
Boston University - Department of Health Services</p>
<p>Caroline M. Hoxby
Stanford University; National Bureau of Economic Research (NBER); Hoover Institution; Stanford University</p>
<p>Andrew Metrick
Yale School of Management; National Bureau of Economic Research (NBER)</p>
<ol>
<li><p>U.PENN</p></li>
<li><p>Duke.</p></li>
</ol>
<h2>OP wrote: "However, I feel sort of like we underestimate Duke because it’s so physically close that it seems too accessible "</h2>
<p>That’s precisely what my wife did when she lived in Menlo Park, and was accepted into Stanford and Cornell. She chose Cornell for the same reason you cite … after experiencing a couple of Cornell winters, she grew to rue that choice!</p>
<p>Geez, the kid got into Duke and Rice, I don’t see why he’s crying. It really is a crapshoot when it comes to places like Harvard. There are huge numbers of qualified students for every student who gets in. And the father quitting his job? That’s nuts.</p>