UPenn or Duke?

[Cuse0507]

<p>

Hahahah Cuse, you’re right, you’re right, I’m just so used to making fun of UNC football, it’s pretty much ingrained in me. It’s so nice of you to say that about East, do you go to a school near here?

</p>

<p>I went to school in Fayetteville, but I know a lot of people from the triangle and whenever the topic of schools comes up, East is always held in high regard. As far as the rivalries go, I knew about the one with Chapel Hill High but I was curious about a NCSSM rivalry given the great academic reputation that both schools have. </p>

<p>

Edit:// Oh, I should pay more attention, you already said that you went to UNC. I have no name memory, my bad. That’s exciting, you’re close by! Hahah in your professional opinion, what is there to do for fun around here, besides on-campus parties and Franklin Street?

</p>

<p>Off campus parties, haha. Bar scene is great once you turn 21/get a fake, but until then there’s always something going on off campus. I guess it depends on your personality. If you like to party, there’s a lot to do here. If you don’t like to party, there’s still a lot to do here but I’m not the person to ask about that stuff haha.</p>

[LazyKid]

<p>I read somewhere that Duke gives big admissions advantage to in-state applicants despite being a private institution. I wonder why that is. And, North Carolina probably doesn’t have a single high school that stands out to be academically stellar at the national level.</p>

[CanaryK]

<p>

@Cuse0507

Off campus parties

WHAT? Those exist?? Now I feel like I’ve been missing out, haha. I’ve been to parties on UNC campus, but I just always felt like there was such a stark contrast between UNC and the rest of Chapel Hill. As in UNC parties and the rest of Chapel Hill doesn’t. Ever.</p>

<p>

@Cuse0507

I was curious about a NCSSM rivalry given the great academic reputation that both schools have.

Hahaha yeah, the rivalry’s so one-sided though, we didn’t stand a chance against NCSSM this year in Science Bowl, and I’m not expecting to beat them in Science Olympiad either. I think our problem is that there’s just too much going on at East, people take on too many extracurriculars, we’re all spread so thin. It’s nice in a way, since there’s always something club-sponsored going on, but it makes it hard to find people to commit themselves enough to Science Olympiad/Science Bowl/Quiz Bowl/Debate/[work-intensive competition] to do really well.</p>

<p>@LazyKid: My guess is that Duke is tired of their reputation of separating themselves from Durham and not “giving back” to their community, so they’re trying to make up for it by giving an edge to in-state applicants? It does seem like a pretty large edge, I know a couple people who got into Duke ED or who got deferred from Duke ED that might not have even made it into UNC and definitely would not have made UNC OOS.</p>

<p>East was climbing up the national rankings until that little safety scandal we had a couple years back. And NC’s got a couple good private schools - Early College at Guilford’s consistently high ranked (although I personally think they’re a little over-rated…), and Raleigh Charter is excellent. And as far as academics in general go, I’d say NC’s at least in the top 15 states, and it’s still developing. I will admit that the Dirty South (said affectionately) lags a little bit in this respect, but at least we’re improving whereas Northeast and CA are at a sort of standstill.
Although I just checked the Newsweek list, and I have to say I’m really surprised at how many good schools Texas and Florida have. I’m also surprised that CA’s best school is 10th. I always thought of CA as an academic powerhouse.</p>

[ilovebagels]

<p>

You ever hear of a little book called “I Hope They Serve Beer in Hell”? The author was a Dukie who spent most of his time in Chapel Hill because he (and almost all Dukies) knew it was a million times better 8 miles down the road

</p>

<p>Well that Dukie was at Duke for law school. He wasn’t an undergrad, and the social lives and habits of undergrads and grads vary just about everywhere.</p>

<p>Anyway, who cares about Duke vs. UNC. It’s Penn ftw.</p>

[datalook]

<p>Business School:
Penn #3
Duke #12</p>

<p>Engineering school:
Penn #27
Duke #35</p>

<p>Law school:
Penn #8
Duke #10</p>

<p>Medical school
Penn #3
Duke #6</p>

<p>Education school:
Penn #13
Duke (#70+, or not existing)</p>

<p>Biology
Penn #21
Duke #12</p>

<p>Chemistry:
Penn #20
Duke #43</p>

<p>Computer science:
Penn #20
Duke #20</p>

<p>Physics"
Penn #13
Duke #29</p>

<p>Earth science:
Penn #67
Duke #34</p>

<p>Math:
Penn #18
Duke #21</p>

<p>Economics:
Penn #9
Duke #19</p>

<p>English:
Penn #4
Duke #10</p>

<p>History
Penn #9
Duke #14</p>

<p>Politics
Penn #28
Duke #9</p>

<p>Psycology
Penn #11
Duke #23</p>

<p>Sociology
Penn #11
Duke #14</p>

<p>To summarize,
Penn
beats Duke in engineering school, medical school, business school, law school, education school, math, physics, chemistry, economics, English, history, psycology, and sociology, </p>

<p>tied with Duke in computer science, </p>

<p>lost to Duke in biology, earth science, and political science. </p>

<p>So overall, Penn beats Duke 13.5 : 3.5.</p>

[eatsalot]

<p>^Graduate does not equal undergraduate. Penn beats Duke in certain grad fields while Duke beats Penn in others. In terms of undergraduate resource and quality of life, they are essentially equal.</p>

<p>(Btw, a difference in 3 ranks is so insignificant lol. Penn med/law is not cateogrically better than Duke med/law, for example. Differences between disciplines such as business is noticeable though.)</p>

[k_amp_s]

<p>Even putting aside Wharton, Penn’s academic standing in the major areas of study for undergrads is a good bit higher than Duke’s.</p>

<p>

It’s one thing for the UNC hoopsters to be dumb jocks (who cannot score four digits on their SATs) but overrated, underachieving ones too??? What’s UNC’s graduation rate for basketball players again??

</p>

<p>During the 1990s, the avg. SAT scores for UNC BB players were HIGHER than that for Duke’s (which were only good for the middle of the ACC).</p>

[warblersrule]

<p>datalook, I purposefully avoided the USNWR ranking. Among other reasons, they do not rank any of the humanities except English.</p>

<p>

@k&s

Even putting aside Wharton, Penn’s academic standing in the major areas of study for undergrads is a good bit higher than Duke’s.

Humanities
Penn #9 (NRC)
Duke #10 (NRC)</p>

<p>Outcome: Tied</p>

<p>Social Sciences
Penn #9 Economics, #9 History, #28 Political Science, #11 Psychology, #10 Public Policy, #11 Sociology (USNWR)
Duke #19 Economics, #14 History, #9 Political Science, #23 Psychology, #41 Public Policy, #14 Sociology (USNWR)</p>

<p>Outcome:
Duke for Political Science and Public Policy
Penn for Economics, History (slightly), and Psychology
Tied for Sociology</p>

<p>Undergraduate Engineering
Penn #26 (USNWR)
Duke #26 (USNWR)</p>

<p>Outcome: Tied</p>

<p>Sciences
Penn #21 Biology, #20 Chemistry, #20 Computer Science, #67 Geology, #18 Math, #13 Physics
Duke #12 Biology, #43 Chemistry, #20 Computer Science, #34 Geology, #21 Math, #29 Physics</p>

<p>Outcome:
Duke for Biology and Geology
Penn for Chemistry and Physics
Tied for Computer Science and Math</p>

<p>As you can see, the two are clearly peers. In the areas in which Duke is relatively deficient, note that it has access to cross-registration at UNC, which is as strong in Penn in those areas.</p>

<h1>5 Sociology</h1>

<h1>12 History</h1>

<h1>13 Psychology</h1>

<h1>16 Chemistry</h1>

<p>When this is factored in, Penn comes ahead only in Economics and Physics.</p>

[quakerstake]

<p>^
Are you certain about cross-registration for undergraduates at Duke and UNC? I have not seen any mention of that in the Duke and UNC-CH websites.</p>

<p>Even if available, cross-registration often places a limit on the number of classes that may be taken at the other institution. It also would not usually be possible to take your major in a subject at the other institution if that same major is offered at your own school. </p>

<p>A big advantage to Penn is the ability to take classes in other colleges at Penn, including Wharton.</p>

[slipper1234]

<p>Who cares about Grad school rankings. So irrelevant.</p>

[warblersrule]

<p>

@quakerstake

Are you certain about cross-registration for undergraduates at Duke and UNC? I have not seen any mention of that in the Duke and UNC-CH websites.

Then you didn’t look very hard – or at all.</p>

<p>Yes, I am sure. [I&lt;/a&gt; did it every semester.](<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1063777581-post109.html]I”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1063777581-post109.html) </p>

<p>[Interinstitutional</a> Information - Office of the University Registrar, Duke University](<a href=“http://registrar.duke.edu/registrar/studentpages/student/interinstitutionalduke.html]Interinstitutional”>http://registrar.duke.edu/registrar/studentpages/student/interinstitutionalduke.html)</p>

<p>

@quakerstake

A big advantage to Penn is the ability to take classes in other colleges at Penn, including Wharton.

You mean <em>especially</em> Wharton. Let’s be honest – not that many CAS kids are going to want to take nursing or engineering courses. The vast majority of cross-registration at Penn, with the possible exception of communication, is going to be between Wharton and CAS/SEAS.</p>

<p>Duke has two schools, Trinity and Pratt, and cross-registration (although it’s not really called that) is easily done between them. A lot (perhaps even a majority) of Pratt engineers have at least a minor in Trinity. If you can provide a good enough reason, you’re allowed to take courses in the professional schools as well – I took several environmental science courses in the Nicholas school and Hebrew in the divinity school.</p>

<p>

@slipper1234

Who cares about Grad school rankings. So irrelevant.

True, but I was getting bored to tears by all the “Penn is better!!11oneone!!! ZOMG” claims.</p>

[quakerstake]

<p>Perhaps the error was searching for cross-registration. Your registrar link uses the term “visiting.” There appears to be limitations on visiting as it states: </p>

<p>“Both the Director of Undergraduate Studies (DUS) for the subject being taken and the student’s Academic Dean will need to approve the undergraduate student’s Interinstitutional registration.” </p>

<p>It may be that these permissions are easy to obtain at Duke and UNC but most schools do limit cross-registration where your own school offers comparable classes. I don’t doubt you but I would be surprised if a Duke student intending to major in say, chemistry, could get permission to take all of his or her chemistry classes at UNC rather than Duke. Finally, while the cross registration option is nice, if you wanted to take a major that is stronger at UNC rather than at Duke, why go to Duke?</p>

<p>My understanding is that Penn has similar cross-registration options with Philadelphia schools like Swarthmore and Haverford but it is rarely done by Penn students since Penn offers everything they would want. :P</p>

[quakerstake]

<p>Info on Quaker Consortium permitting cross-registration with Bryn Mawr, Haverford and Swarthmore: [Quaker</a> Consortium](<a href=“http://www.college.upenn.edu/options/quaker.php]Quaker”>http://www.college.upenn.edu/options/quaker.php)</p>

[warblersrule]

<p>

@quakerstake

I don’t doubt you but I would be surprised if a Duke student intending to major in say, chemistry, could get permission to take all of his or her chemistry classes at UNC rather than Duke. Finally, while the cross registration option is nice, if you wanted to take a major that is stronger at UNC rather than at Duke, why go to Duke?</p>

<p>My understanding is that Penn has similar cross-registration options with Philadelphia schools like Swarthmore and Haverford but it is rarely done by Penn students since Penn offers everything they would want.

I’m afraid you have a very undeveloped view of the intended purpose of cross-registration.</p>

<p>Cross-registration (or inter-institutional registration, as it is called at Duke) is designed to supplement rather than replace one’s course options. No university, including Berkeley and Harvard, offers every course in every major. Often a smaller and lower-ranked department will offer courses a better department does not. Duke is ranked ahead of UNC for anthropology, for example, but UNC offers archaeology courses Duke does not. Similarly, UNC is ranked ahead of Duke for art history, but Duke offers courses in museology that UNC does not. </p>

<p>One semester, for example, Duke may offer a course in Queer Politics (while UNC does not), and UNC may offer a course in Old Irish (while Duke does not). This has nothing to do with department strength – it simply means that each department is limited in the number of courses it can offer at any given time, and having two such excellent research universities in such close proximity nearly doubles the range of courses one can take. </p>

<p>

@meangirl

Also, I’ve argued that what Duke does is arguably worse than what UNC does because the former is a higher ranked, smaller private (where it’s harder to hide the jocks)

Who says they’re hiding? They’re all in sociology. ;)</p>

[quakerstake]

<p>^ Sure and Penn has similar cross-registration options available with some of the top LACs in the US that happen to be in the Philadelphia area. It was however disingenuous of you to use UNC’s departmental rankings (in your graduate school ranking comparisons) as if they were Duke’s because of the availability of cross-registration. </p>

<p>Penn also offers undergrads the ability to take classes in Penn’s graduate and professional schools.</p>

<p>Penn and Duke are peer schools and Wharton is undeniably a huge advantage to Penn undergrads.</p>

[bluedog]

<p>

Who says they’re hiding? They’re all in sociology.

</p>

<p>Haha, it’s funny, but there are actually ZERO current players on the roster majoring in sociology:</p>

<p>1 MMS in business (graduated undergrad in psychology)
1 Econ & environmental sciences and policy double major (National Merit Scholar semifinalist and scored a perfect 800 on SAT Math)
1 Econ
1 Undecided National Merit Scholar Semifinalist, National Honor Society and honor roll all four years, National Latin exam magna cum laude
1 intended history (started out in engineering)
2 declared history (one who chose Duke over offers from Princeton and Stanford; scored 1360 on M+V)
2 visual arts
1 African and African-American studies
4 undecided/undeclared (3 freshman and new sophomore transfer)</p>

<p>They don’t look universally like dumb jocks after all, now, do they? ;)</p>

[monstor344]

<p>

2 declared history (one who chose Duke over offers from Princeton and Stanford; scored 1360 on M+V)

Zoubek is a beast.</p>

[kwu]

<p>No surprise that a kid with a 1360 chose Duke over Princeton and Stanford.</p>

<p>I recommend Penn for the OP, if only to get out of his/her comfort zone.</p>

<p>The two schools are academic peers.
Secondary factors, such as location, weather, prestige, culture, etc. are what make the two schools different.</p>

<p>Factoring in all of the latter, Penn still remains the better choice.</p>

[MirrorImage]

<p>UPenn would be my choice.
While they stack up well against each other, the city of Philadelphia and UPenn’s atmosphere is what influenced my choice.</p>

[par72]

<p>Duke-great academics and athletics, with nice weather.</p>