<p>All things considered, I'd say that unless you LOVE Northwestern, you should go to Penn.</p>
<p>Northwestern is great for what it is, but I think Penn would offer a better social/college life.</p>
<p>Coolcat08: I've lived next to Penn my entire life and I think people mistaken many black people for being dangerous. It's sad but true. The area seriously isn't that bad at all. I mean there's crime, but that's true anywhere. The campus is GORGEOUS and it's unbelievable how much greenery there is, considering its urban environment. The security is great, and I've never heard of problems on or near campus as long as I've lived there.</p>
<p>To follow up on what 08seniors08 said, Penn's campus is really a "best of both worlds" situation. The unified 260-acre campus has lovely greens, shaded walkways, courtyards, and plazas, and is mostly closed off from city streets to create a kind of cloistered feeling. Yet it's only a mile or so from the hustle and bustle of Center City Philadelphia, with all of its world-class cultural attractions, historic sites and neighborhoods, incredible restaurants and dining (over 200 sidewalk cafes, the enormous Reading Terminal Market, etc.), entertainment, and nightlife.</p>
<p>If it were my choice, I would go to Penn in a minute.</p>
<p>I would honestly choose Penn without hesitation</p>
<p>Agree with Alexandre. Academic peers except for specialized programs (Wharton at Penn, Medill (journalism)/Music/Theater/SESP at Northwestern - engineering is for another discussion). Settings are very different. Northwestern has a great campus with very safe environs. Penn has a great campus with a "watch your back" understanding. Chicago probably trumps Philadelphia in almost every way other than weather. Big Ten sports vs. Ivy League moniker. Some difference in Midwest vs. East Coast mentality/pace/attitude.</p>
<p>Agree you need to visit. Go where the fit suits you best.</p>
<p>Keep in mind Bala went to Northwestern.</p>
<p>I live in Philly and the mentality is not "watch your back," but "don't do anything that you wouldn't do in any other city" such as walk around at 3am with a fashionable suit on and twenty dollar bills overflowing from your jacket.</p>
<p>Ivy rivalry is tons of fun and Philly's culture is hard to beat. I don't know if you're much of a partier, but Penn definitely is #1 in that department.</p>
<p>Notice I didn't bash NU at all in this, because I don't know too much about it.</p>
<p>"The security is great, and I've never heard of problems on or near campus as long as I've lived there."</p>
<p>08seniors08: It is hardly "bashing" to suggest that Philadelphia has a crime problem or that Penn is a school that faces big city realities. The security on campus is great but it's there for a reason. No "problems" is just not the historical reality. I could provide endless links to national coverage of Philadelphia's crime issues. The problems on and just off campus at Penn have fortunately been very limited in scope. There have already been inumerable threads on this topic I see little need to rehash. Again, I'd argue that the campus is generally safe but to argue that vigilance is not a part of the game is simply denying reality. Again, I'd argue that the OP should "Go where the fit suits you best."</p>
<p>
[quote]
Penn also offers its vaunted "One University" policy. Under that policy, all undergrads are encouraged to take courses in more than one of the undergrad schools (the College, the top-ranked Wharton School, School of Engineering and Applied Science, and the top-ranked Nursing School)
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Mmm, that really isn't something unique to Penn. In fact, I thought most top privates did this. At Northwestern too you're allowed to take classes at any of the schools you want. I'm in the McCormick Engineering school majoring in Mat Sci Engineering, but I've taken Communications Sciences and Disorders classes and Radio/TV/Film classes in the School of Communications, Integrated Marketing classes at the Medill School of Journalism, a few community development classes in the School of Education and Social Policy and obviously numerous literature, behavioral science courses in the Weinberg College of Arts and Sciences. I think the only school, I haven't taken classes from would be the School of Music, but I'm aware that you can fulfill your Lit/Fine Arts distros by taking music classes as well.</p>
<p>You can easily, and I mean very very easily double major in different schools, do a minor or work for a certificate in any of the schools on campus including the Kellogg School of Management. I do wish we could take classes at the Feinberg School of Medicine, but I guess that would be asking for too much.</p>
<p>Edit:</p>
<p>Oh right, but we don't have nursing school like Penn. Big loss...</p>
<p>I don't know what the big deal of "one university" either. I mean NU students have been double-majoring or even triple-majoring across different schools for years (thanks for quarter system making this easier). Heck, some schools don't even have separate divisions (e.g. Chicago, Dartmouth), it doesn't make them even better. I believe almost all students in just about any top-50 school take at least one or two classes outside their own school.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Toast throwing, Philly, Hey Day, Walnut Walk, Spring Fling, dodging flyers on Locust, crushing Princeton...it's an amazing experience.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Painting the Rock, Big10 football, throwing marshmallows at football games, NU Day (at Wrigley Field), Dance Marathon, Mayfest, and signature shows in Mee-Ow, Dolphin Show, and Waa-Mu....</p>
<p>Throwing marshmallows?!</p>
<p>
Penn also offers its vaunted "One University" policy. Under that policy, all undergrads are encouraged to take courses in more than one of the undergrad schools (the College, the top-ranked Wharton School, School of Engineering and Applied Science, and the top-ranked Nursing School)
</p>
<p>Mmm, that really isn't something unique to Penn. In fact, I thought most top privates did this. At Northwestern too you're allowed to take classes at any of the schools you want. I'm in the McCormick Engineering school majoring in Mat Sci Engineering, but I've taken Communications Sciences and Disorders classes and Radio/TV/Film classes in the School of Communications, Integrated Marketing classes at the Medill School of Journalism, a few community development classes in the School of Education and Social Policy and obviously numerous literature, behavioral science courses in the Weinberg College of Arts and Sciences. I think the only school, I haven't taken classes from would be the School of Music, but I'm aware that you can fulfill your Lit/Fine Arts distros by taking music classes as well.</p>
<p>You can easily, and I mean very very easily double major in different schools, do a minor or work for a certificate in any of the schools on campus including the Kellogg School of Management. I do wish we could take classes at the Feinberg School of Medicine, but I guess that would be asking for too much.</p>
<p>Edit:</p>
<p>Oh right, but we don't have nursing school like Penn. Big loss...
[/quote]
You kinda conveniently dropped the rest of my sentence when you quoted it there, Slick. For the sake of completeness, here's the rest of my sentence:</p>
<p>
[quote]
and in most of Penn's esteemed graduate and professional schools (Graduate School of Arts and Sciences, Law School, Annenberg School for Communication, School of Design, School of Social Policy and Practice, Graduate School of Education, etc.), without the need for any special dispensation.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>As an example, Penn's law school regularly advertises courses open to non-law students, such as this ad in the Daily Pennsylvanian listing about 50 "sample" courses available in Fall '08 (see page 13):</p>
<p>Does Northwestern's law school regularly make so many courses available to undergrads? Oh, wait--Northwestern's law school isn't even on the same campus!</p>
<p>As I previously said, not only all of Penn's undergrad schools, but most (at least eight) of Penn's grad and professional schools are open for undergrads to take courses. It's the most comprehensive interdisciplinary program available to undergrads in the country and, as I also said previously, is really unparalleled. Of course, it's also enhanced by the fact that all of Penn's undergraduate, graduate, and professional schools--and the bulk of their research and clinical facilities--are located on the same campus, creating a uniquely diverse and comprehensive campus environment.</p>
<p>
Perhaps in some ways, but not in "almost every" way. Chicago's a great city, no doubt about it. But Philly matches or beats it by many measures:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Philly has larger and better art museums and collections than Chicago (Philly has the 3rd largest public art museum in the country after NYC and DC, the largest private collection of impressionist and post-impressionist paintings in the world, more impressionist paintings than any other city in the world except Paris, the largest collection of Rodin sculptures outside of Paris, more outdoor art than any other city in the country, etc.).</p></li>
<li><p>Philly's orchestra is equal to Chicago's in eminence (both are among the "Big 5" orchestras in the US), and Philly has one of the most eminent music conservatories in the world (Curtis), which has free recitals open to the public 3 nights a week.</p></li>
<li><p>Philly has many more historic sites and neighborhoods than Chicago, including many charming and scenic streets dating to the 18th and early 19th centuries.</p></li>
<li><p>Philly has the largest urban park in the world.</p></li>
<li><p>Philly has more arboretums and public gardens than any other city in the country, and has the largest indoor flower show in the world.</p></li>
<li><p>Philly has a restaurant and food scene that's equal to or better than Chicago's (e.g., more than 200 sidewalk cafes in Center City Philly alone, the enormous and historic Reading Terminal Market, the famous Italian Market in South Philly, etc.). </p></li>
<li><p>Philly has more colleges and universities (over 90) and college/university students (over 300,000) than Chicago.</p></li>
<li><p>Philly has some of the most beautiful exurban areas in the country (according to the AAA guide), including artist Andrew Wyeth's village of Chadds Ford, historic Valley Forge, and charming New Hope and surrounding Bucks County.</p></li>
<li><p>Philly has a teriffic location, 1 1/2 hours from DC and 1 1/4 hours from NYC by train, and an hour from the Atlantic Ocean, Pocono Mountains, etc.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>I could go on, but I think I've made my point. Again, Chicago's a great city, but to say that it "trumps Philadelphia in almost every way" reveals a lack of knowledge and understanding of the many cultural, historic, scenic, dining, and other amenities Philly has to offer.</p>
<p>45percenter, I am sorry, but Philadelphia does not come close to Chicago when it comes to restaurants. Overall, Chicago is a far superior city. I do agree, however, that Philadelphia has its strengths. It has a rich history, great art and classical music and proximity to DC and NYC. But in all other ways, Chicago is hands down better.</p>
<p>Alexandre, in recent years, both Gourmet Magazine and Conde Nast Traveler Magazine have named Philly one of the best restaurant cities in the country. Also, I wasn't exaggerating about the number of sidewalk cafes in relatively compact Center City--it's literally now over 200:</p>
<p>How many sidewalk cafes does downtown Chicago have? And of course, the sidewalk cafes are merely one facet of the robust restaurant scene in Center City, which has also garnered national media attention in publications like The Washington Post, The New York Times, and National Geographic Traveler Magazine. </p>
<p>Further, in addition to Center City, Philly has many other great restaurant districts such as South Philly, Northern Liberties, Fairmount/Museum district, Manayunk, Chestnut Hill, etc., not to mention several suburban areas (New Hope, the Main Line, etc.).</p>
<p>I know that Chicago has its share of great restaurants, but among gourmets and restaurant affcionados, Philly is also known nationally as a great restaurant town.</p>
<p>In terms of Chicago being "hands down better," that's clearly a matter of personal taste and preference. They're both great cities with much to offer, but I suspect that you're not that familiar with Philly's many assets and amenities. Next time you're stateside, take a swing by Philly and I'll show you around, and I'll take you out for a real fine dinner. :)</p>
<p>Hahahahha Alexandre... have you even been to Philly??? I doubt it, because otherwise you wouldn't hold your current opinion. I've been to Chicago. It's a nice city. But I wouldn't call it "better" than Philadelphia.
And how's the weather in Chicago? ;)</p>
<p>Uh, the weather in Philly isn't too much better. How's the lake like this time of year in Philly? Oh wait, Philly doesn't have any bodies of water around it.;)</p>
<p>08seniors08, I have been to Philadelphia dozens of times. I know it well. Chicago blows is significantly better. That is not to say that Philadelphia is bad. Far from it, but Chicago is one of the great cities of the World. I would compare it to Barcelona or Berlin. </p>
<p>45percenter, I am a food affecionado. I have eaten at Le Bec Fin (terribly overrated) and the Fountain restaurant (good but not great) at the Four Seasons hotel. The best restaurant in Phili is the Bar Lyonnais, which is excellent as far as bistro cuisine goes, but it is hardly going to earn more than 1 Michelin star.</p>
<p>On the other hand, Chicago has 2 of America's top 10 restaurants in Charlie Trotters and Alinea. Everest and Tru are also excellent. Those four restaurants are better than any restaurant in Philadelphia. The next 10 or so restaurants are roughly the same quality as the Fountain. As far as restaurants go, only three cities in the US compete with Chicago; NYC, Las Vegas and San Francisco (in that order).</p>
<p>Alexandre, you forgot Schwa...read the article in this week's</p>
<p>New Yorker.</p>