Saw the tweet. People shelter their kids. I like the diversity my kids have in their lives. We are mid to upper mid class, but I am sure to let them know what is what.
I remember when my D19 started to drive. We were able to give her my 11 year old car. She knew which of her friends paid for their own gas because they and D19 were the ones complaining about he the price. Others just used parents cc.
Should probably be read in conjunction with this thread: Not the kid I dropped off - Parents Forum - College Confidential Forums
Youâre not disagreeing. What kids are taught IS part of what they grow up with. Weâve tried to make sure ours have a good understanding of the world too.
This is something I havenât ever asked. If I go back to school or get chatting with one about education otherwise Iâll have it in mind to ask.
In general, many (most?) people I know get their jobs (at least first jobs) via networking through friends, family, church members, alumni, their college, or similar. Thatâs hardly new. I got my first high school job due to a friend who recommended me. She already worked there. It was in our town library.
Headhunters hunt, but how often for beginning employees? I suppose there are Temp Agencies.
While a bit surprised, I am not shocked that students at one of the most prestigious, most money oriented (due to the presence of the Wharton School of Business) universities in the world responded with such a high figure. And these students were all Wharton students where starting salaries are often discussed throughout the school with much publicity given to recent grads who earned $400,000 to $450,000 in their first year out of Whartonâs undergraduate business school. And this was from several years ago.
If these students were training to become social welfare workers, then I would have been shocked by the responses.
âAverageâ should have been defined. The students may have assumed the question referred to the average college degreed worker earns.
P.S. My first reaction might have been $80,000 as this is the average household income in the US.
Interesting when there are students in MS and HS that âdesireâ certain things and their parents purchase them â building somewhat entitlement and some values. For example a gal who eventually went to medical school which was much more expensive than another where she had a scholarship (that school actually ranked higher) - easily costing about $200,000 more (I was in on some of the details as one of my good friends helped guide the galâs mom through the medical school application/interview steps for her DD). This student also had a $300 purse in MS (purses were a bit of the status thing for some). Somehow her parents just didnât say no to her - she was high achieving but also a bit of a snob (her parents were not and her dad was also an alum of where I obtained my MBA so we knew them socially in alum gatherings) â this gal always had a circle of friends so her friendship to my DD was not really strong two way. DD was a star performer in band so that was part of the friendship - with band activities. They went to the same college but in different circles there and the other gal made no efforts to maintain a friendship.
There is something to be said about some children not knowing what their parents make - but also just assuming they donât need to worry about spending money on them (sort of self centered culture). DD2 went to public MS for their band program (and their education level was fine - it turns out our public HSs in our district are in the top 10 of our stateâs publics, and her MS actually was rated #1 on Niche for 2022) - and a galâs family was taking a longer holiday weekend and she announced that her mother insisted they do no homework on this vacation and that her dad makes $300,000/year - so she could not be penalized on the assignment she would just need to do later.
For church HS graduation celebration, one gal came in with a $2,000 purse on her arm - she walked in like she was a runway model; I didnât know the value of the purse (I was perplexed at the behavior inappropriate for church) - my HS DD told me how much her purse cost as I had no idea (it must have had some buzz, but I was too busy on important things like surviving cancer and raising our DDs right).
DD2 had more of an eye and a taste for nice things - and she had a semester personal finance course in HS that I heard good things about it. One assignment was to find out what the average starting salary of the planned field of study was - she did get a college degree in civil and architectural engineering. She came home from HS and was âsurprisedâ that the average starting pay in civil engineering was $60,000 â she was assuming so much higher. I told her that people in a field a long time (like her dad, a EE) makes above that, but I also told her what our starting pay was in 1978 as new college graduates (she graduated HS in 2014). My brother was a civil engineer co-owner/Sr VP of his company and made a very strong salary - but was a high stress guy overseeing big projects and working long hours.
In college, both DDs knew students who were very financially limited - taking out student loans and needing work study or other PT work during college - and so with an underlying concern about money instead of all the focus on academics and having some down time/fun. So DDs did appreciate that they graduated from college debt free and did not have those financial worries.
Some people are living above their means because they spend the money as soon as they make it and save little, have a lot of debt. Some are managing to have balance with their resources and use more energy to having their values in faith/family/friends/community.
What is often misunderstood in these situations is the âmistrustâ FGLI students feel toward high SES classmates doesnât originate in a vacuum. A small example.
My son is attending a private university. He hangs out with all types of students. Two of his best friends are upper-middle class - a misnomer actually because most people in lower income groups would refer to umc as ârichâ, but I digress. For Halloween, those two friends decided the three of them (including my son) would buy matching costumes and visit the parties and hang out all night. Once my son was aware of the cost of the costumes, he realized it was too much for him to spend on something as frivolous as a one-use Halloween costume. His friends were very upset with him and said they couldnât believe he could not afford it - they thought he was choosing to spend his money on other things (managing his $ âimproperlyâ according to them) and didnât value their friendship enough to choose to spend his money on their idea. I want to reiterate these were good friends, not casual friends.
It only takes two or three episodes like this before FGLI students assume virtually all high-SES students are not just blind but also callous and condescending to the financial challenges they face. I experienced encounters like these myself first hand. For some students, these incidents will leave a larger negative effect than for other students. To avoid these negative incidents, yes, many FGLI students will choose to avoid in-depth socialization with high-SES classmates, but they are doing it to protect themselves, not for some nebulous reason.
Thus the perception of FGLI students choosing to âself-segregateâ is often a way for the higher-SES classmates to protect their self-image of themselves and keep themselves blameless in the situation. Maybe sometimes is it sheer ignorance. Maybe a combination.
My son called me after the incident was resolved. Everything ended well, but I could hear he was livid as he told me about it. âThey didnât believe me when I said I couldnât afford it! Who the f_ck are they to say Iâm lying?â Iâm proud of my son for 1) not wasting money 2) standing up for himself 3) making sure his friends learned more about real life 4) that he himself learned more about their upbringing and lifestyles, all while 5) maintaining his friendships with them. He didnât understand how âfriendsâ would attack a friend because he would never attack one of his friends from a poorer family just because that friend said he could not afford something.
But the point is, most FGLI students might choose #1 and remove themselves from the situation then, and from that point on. No way would I say they were âself-selectingâ out of grand opportunities to expand their horizons. I fully understand they are âself-selectingâ from being emotionally harmed by some of their high-SES classmates.
It doesnât have to be a bigger negative event like I described. It might be something where a club decides to hold a meeting at a local restaurant so the members can eat while discussing club business. If most of the club is high-SES, they might be clueless as to why the two LI students are absent from that meeting and attribute the absences to âlazinessâ, âcontempt of the rest of the groupâ, âsimply how they areâ, âbitternessâ or whatever. And when the LI students stop showing up altogether, it wonât be recognized as anything but that they self-selected out of a group activity and out of an opportunity to better themselves.
My son has FG and/or LI friends on campus who have very few and very minor social interactions with the high-SES (meaning upper middle class) students. Add in race and that âminor and fewâ becomes practically none. A certain segment of American society mocks conversations about microagressions, but it is a long term ongoing phenomenon and it damages the emotional well-being of some victims significantly. After a student suffers enough of them, some students will find it necessary to decline any non-necessary college gathering where they fear microagressions may occur - which in essence is any gathering where high-SES students are present - or to attend but âself-segregateâ with others in their âgroupâ.
My DD had a very hard time connecting to the very insular black community at her school and a summer program she did at an HBCU (which unfortunately made her cross all HBCUs from her list). The economic divide was hard to bridge as she felt they just didnât give her chance and were always talking about experiences she couldnât relate to. Her friend group at school ended up being a diverse group of other upper middle class students. Socio-economics tends to be a bigger divider than race.
Agreed.
My son also attended a HBCU summer program and didnât immediately bond with the other attendees. Heâs had a very integrated life regarding both race and SES. Most of the attendees had more segregated upbringings in one or the other. The initial small group conversation topics didnât connect with him immediately.
Through K-12 and into college, his friend groups have been wildly diverse in many aspects. And also composed of others who are open and generally (and actively) accepting of diversities. I think it was those experiences with his diverse friend groups growing up that helped him successfully navigate the Costume incident.
Long ago, when I attended a summer event at MIT for minorities I had a tricky time bonding closely with the other attendees. While I thought my family was middle class (and we were in many regards) most of the other attendees were either from high upper-middle class families or families near the poverty line. It felt like I was the only one in the middle. I ended up spending most of my time with a junior MIT student whoâd stay on campus over the summer and lived in our dorm. Because of our shared SES, we had much more in common than my age-appropriate cohort.
US household income is only $61k.
You are correct.
Median household income for 2021 = $79,900.
But, average income is much higher in Wash DC, New Jersey, Connecticut, Massachusetts, Maryland, California, Hawaii, New York, Virginia, New Hampshire, and Washington state.
Average income is much lower in these 10 states: Mississippi, West Virginia, Kentucky, New Mexico, Alabama, Arkansas, South Carolina, Idaho, Oklahoma, & Arizona.
Where are you getting your numbers? The census says differently.
I googled âaverage US income 2021â.
Although a bit outdatedâand presumably lower than current figures:
https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/average-income-by-state
Bottom of page lists incomes for 10 highest state averages.
Also, a lot of income is not reported or is hidden by accounting for small business owners.
@EconPop you just triggered a painful memory. One of my college roommates was high SES and invited me to be in her wedding party five years after graduation.
At the time, I had completed grad school and just landed a nice job. I was still living in my cheap apartment in an undesirable area and driving a car that didnât even come with power steering. I had school loans, a car loan, and expenses associated with living on my own, getting a work wardrobe, etc., but I thought I could swing the cost of a cross-country trip to attend, so I agreed to be in the wedding.
But I was naively thinking of the simple church weddings /Saturday afternoon backyard receptions that were common in my circle.
I came to realize my roommateâs wedding was going to be black tie in Manhattan at a nationally known venue with multiple expensive pre-wedding events contemplated for the wedding party. I couldnât afford the gown alone, plus a week off work, etc.
I had to bow out. It was embarrassing and caused a rift that never really healed. I donât think she believed that someone with a good job like mine couldnât afford it.
we are upper middle class, and I just asked my college junior and he got it on the nose. My just recently graduated kid probably would also guess. Growing up they got experiences versus âstuffâ,but nothing too extravagent. I think they realized that we are doing ok, and we could afford to send them to private colleges within a certain budget, but then again, somehow there are so many people around us that have more money. Also where my D went to school, there are a lot of wealthy kids that wear Canada Goose coats. (as she puts it).
Us too, and we live in a high cost of living area. I asked my 15 year old, he got it right.
We didnât tell our kids what we made until they were near college age. Even then we only talked about our starting salaries right out of college and how it compared to the cost of our 4 year degrees. It came up when discussing the cost and value of a college degree.
Like kelsmom we had conversations about saving, but probably emphasized âconscious spendingâ because of our familyâs situation. We did most of our saving/investing when the kids were young and then were really lucky and retired early.
If you retire early as we did, your kids realize money âisnât an issueâ. However they are also aware that we consciously choose to live modestly, in large part due to our respective upbringings. We practice what we preach.
Anyway, the topic of the thread had to do with what the average American worker makes. I just wanted to say it seems like young people today share salary information more than our generation did/does. With the internet, Google and sites like Glassdoor, people are able to not only make comparisons, but also use that information when considering career options.
Both of my kids are in consulting. They are aware of the trade offs. They seem to have what my husband and I see as a healthy relationship with money and money management. We are grateful.
Well, I know of one family in which the parents can one-up all the posters on this thread.
Not only did they not tell their kids how much they made, they didnât even tell their accountants or, I am guessing, the IRS.
A child of a good friend came home for break during the first year of a T20 school and told the parents they had done everything wrong in terms of finances. School made the kid feel âpoor.â But mind you, the parents have done very well financially. Live in a house that is 5 times the state average and 3 times the national average. Have 4 kids who will graduate from said T20 school as full pay kids. Own a house at the school they use to visit (none of the kids live in the house and its not rented out). Travel regularly. In no sense of the word have they done anything wrong financially much less everything. And nothing about them is poor.
Another friend with a daughter who went to another T20 school as full pay. Only one sibling who also went to T5 school also as full pay. Daughter is getting married to someone she met in college. Parents offered to help pay for the wedding and offered $50k. Parents of the groom said in essence they would be laughed at by their friends if they spent anything less than $1 million on the wedding. So the groom parents are paying and cost will exceed $1 million.
It can all be very relative. And experience can really bias your view.
Your link shows mean incomes, not median, as far as I can tell. Median household for 2021 is $68,400.