UPenn professor asks students what they thought the average American worker makes in a year

According to the Twitter post, the professor asked what “the average American worker makes per year”, which is ambiguous phrasing. I believe she did not mean the average of the annual wages of all workers in the US and instead meant the wage of the average person… essentially a median. This fits with her comment about the correct answer being $45k. $45k was a 50th percentile individual earnings in 2021. $100k individual earning is in contrast top 16% individual earnings – high income and nowhere near the correct answer. I expect many of the 75% who said a number under $100k were also nowhere near the correct answer.

It’s possible that some students interpreted the question as average household earnings, rather than earnings of the average individual worker, which results in far less of an error. While this type of misunderstanding may contribute, people from wealthier backgrounds do tend to overrestimate how much typical persons in the US earn and underestimate how much wealthier they are than typical Americans. We see this type of comment regularly on the forums as well, in discussions of college costs and FA. Had the professor asked a clear and unambiguous question, I very much doubt that most would say the median individual annual earnings is near $45k.

4 Likes

Agree that the prof’s question was ambiguous.

As odd as it may read, I believe that many American workers do not understand how much they “are paid”. Retirement plans & health care benefits are probably not taken into consideration as “earnings” by many workers. This is explained well by unions to their members as collective bargaining agreements often focus on retirement & health care “earnings”.

I have read multiple reports that the average college graduate is hired at a starting salary slightly above $50,000 with certain majors commanding much higher starting salaries.

When one’s take-home pay exceeds one’s student loan amount, then repayment should be possible, although individual situations will vary.

Average in-state tuition of $10,000 per academic year is a bargain whether the average worker earns $50,000 or $100,000–so we disagree on this point.

Not really, $10,000 is a bargain if 80% - 90% of the population can afford it, not if only those who are making more than average can afford it.

In general, median family income is around $67,000, and the average spending is $61,000 (which, for >50% of the population, only includes healthcare, housing, transportation, utilities, on food and clothing). I would guess that the median spending was less than that, but still, that is the range. So, for the median family, paying $10,000 a year in tuition, as well as room + board (since attending a four year college within commuting distance is usually not an option), means that a median family of four is living at the edge, and still needs to take out loans, just to send their kid to a college which is a “bargain”.

As for saving for college, well, until that family reaches the median income, they first had to start at the bottom, since the median family inherits very little from their parents. The family also had to spend a lot more for things like down payments, young childcare, etc. Families in the bottom 40% by income have nothing to “put aside” for their kid’s college education. So, by the time they get to median income, they have nothing saved for their kid’s college. They are lucky if they have any money put aside for emergencies or, perhaps they want to put aside for retirement.

As a result, families which make less than $70,000 a year almost never have $10,000 extra a year at any point in their lives, much less for four years in a row. They mostly do not have more than $1,000 extra, and that is usually eaten up by various emergencies or extra costs.

These families also have not made enough money up to the point that they reach that income, to have $80,000 in saving for the two kids who will attend college. That is why the average student debt is $32,000.

Here is the thing - basic living costs do no scale to salary. The less you make, the higher percent these are from the income. So there is no way that a family making the median income, and which was almost certainly at a lower income percentile in the past, can put aside enough money to have college savings for their “kids college fund”.

That is why only fewer than 30% of the kids from of the middle quintile (40%-60% by income) actually attend a 4 year college.

To tie this back to the main theme of the thread (not related to anything that @Publisher wrote) - the repeated recommendation to “20% of the income to savings” is a good example of the results of the unrealistic picture of USA income levels held by Wharton students, and by those at similar business schools. These graduates seem to truly believe that families making the median income can save 20% of their income. They carry this even after they learn the actual numbers - they simply believe that families making $62,000 can save $15,500 a year, and thus, after 18 years, have enough to send their kids to any college.

14 Likes

Many college students are limited by finances to attending colleges in commuting distance from where they lived before college. However, this often means that other fit factors (e.g. academic offerings) may not fit the student as well. In some cases, the commutable four year state universities may be too selective for many students to get admitted to (e.g. northern Santa Barbara County or southern San Luis Obispo County).

How accessible lower cost in-state public universities are to commuting students depends on the state population geography and state higher education policy.

4 Likes

All good points

Everything is relative. Tuition of $10,000 per academic year is certainly a bargain compared to private colleges & universities and compared to many publics.

Whether or not something is a “bargain” is dependent on the competition–not on affordability.

Affordability can be addressed via other means including attending a community college for one’s first two years, living at home if feasible, working part-time, loans & merit money, attending part-time, etc.

These shouldn’t be the choices that are faced by the large majority of the population. Since a college degree has become the key to any decent job, it is unconscionable that middle-class families cannot afford a college education without these arrangements and hoops. Moreover, that $10,000 is tuition, which does not include things like books, and, as I wrote, if a student does not have a college close by, commuting is not an option.

Moreover, you seem to be unaware that, for most of the people in the USA, even the commute to a community college is expensive, since public transportation is not an option across most of the USA. So a person need to have a reliable vehicle, pay for gas and upkeep, etc.

Moreover, that $10,000, which is 15% of the median family income before taxes, is too much to pay even when commuting from home. That is without considering that staying at home reduces the additional money spent on having an additional person at home who eats, showers, uses electricity, etc.

These are PUBLIC universities. These people who you claim should be tying themselves in knots to afford a higher education are already paying for them long before their kids are even in high school. It is extremely messed up that the less money a person has, the less they can get for their taxes, per dollar. So long as people are paying state taxes, they should be able to afford to attend an in-state four year college.

Yes, private colleges can charge what they want, and, so long as they do not violate their non-profit status, let competition take care of it. Public colleges should have leeway in what they charge out of state students. But so long as a college system is public, every state resident should be able to afford an education in one of the four year colleges.

Community colleges are for people who want to go back to school, people whose GPA was too low to be accepted to a four-year college, people who only need an associates degree for the job they want, and people who want to save money (but not because they cannot afford to). It should not be the only route that a middle class student can afford to take if they want a four year degree.

6 Likes

I understand your points & your point of view. We just disagree. Best to leave it at that.

Couple of late comments to this thread… First, the professor is absolutely trying to go viral. Congrats! Mission accomplished. You can now proceed with your agenda. Second, she’s smart enough to realize the $800k answer was a joke. But that’s a shiny object to bring attention, so she used it in an disingenuous fashion. Third, 25% thinking it was high? Remember, there are likely many international students in the class who would only have a soft handle on that type of information. Being off 15-20% isn’t that remarkable. Anyway, long winded way of saying this is a professor with an agenda, who knew what she was hoping to gain before sending out the survey. She also would be better served in the College as opposed to Wharton.

3 Likes

A <20% error would be a guess in the $36k to $54k range. It sounds like a lot of guesses were well outside of that range… I expect more than just international students.

2 Likes