@emilymontgomery Thank you for the advice but there is still an issue unfortunately. I just talked to my parent again about this issue and they lectured me for 20 minutes about the importance of my grades and work and how I should not focus on the test as it is just “recommended”. They went on to tell me I could not take the test if I did not sing up for my own credit card and walk to the testing center that is an hour from my house. Should I send admissions an email on this or will they think I am lying and it is some sort of sob story (I am friends with my counselor and they could back it up). I don’t want to blame others but it is really tough and I feel screwed over by something I could’t control.
@f2000sa I could use a little more advice if that is ok. I just talked to my parent again about this issue and they lectured me for 20 minutes about the importance of my grades and work and how I should not focus on the test as it is just “recommended”. They went on to tell me I could not take the test if I did not sing up for my own credit card and walk to the testing center that is an hour from my house. Should I send admissions an email on this or will they think I am lying and it is some sort of sob story. I don’t want to blame others but it is really tough and I feel screwed over by something I could’t control.
@ucbalumnus Ok thank you for your help. I also have 1 more question if that is ok about some extenuating circumstances of sorts for me. My parents would never let me take the sat subject tests as they thouhg I had more important things to do. I just talked to my parent again about this issue and they lectured me for 20 minutes about the importance of my grades and work and how I should not focus on the test as it is just “recommended”. They went on to tell me I could not take the test if I did not sing up for my own credit card and walk to the testing center that is an hour from my house. Should I send admissions an email on this or will they think I am lying and it is some sort of sob story. I don’t want to blame others but it is really tough and I feel screwed over by something I could’t control.
Sign up with your own credit card and call a Uber to go to the test center, if it’s important to you. Only a few schools really require SAT subject test. Mostly STEM heavy schools, such as MIT, Caltech, Harvey Mudd, Cornell Engineering, etc. If you are not interested in these schools, subject tests are usually optional.
I see everyone around here saying that SAT subject tests are required when they say recommended but do you think it is possible that people are having conformation bias. What I mean is do you think all top students take the subject tests and top students are the only people to get in to top 20 schools so they just assume that the subject tests are why they got in. I have some super basic math that could be completely wrong to back this up. EDIT (I had some numbers here but I just realized they made no sense, sorry)
Basically my question is are SAT subject tests really required when it says recommended or is everyone just brainwashed into thinking they are required due to confirmation bias.
@bogeyorpar For ivies and other elite schools the subject tests are only optional on paper for most applicants. They are truly optional only for kids from underprivileged backgrounds. The rest of the kids actually need them to have a decent chance.
I’ll go against the CC orthodoxy here, because unless the people preaching this work in admissions, their advice is based on what they believe and not based on any empirical evidence. Subject tests have been waning in important for years. In Penn’s case, they flat out say you will NOT be at a disadvantage if you don’t take subject tests. There’s no asterisk saying this doesn’t apply to students who can afford to take the tests:
“SAT Subject Tests are recommended but not required. Applicants who do not take SAT Subject Tests will not be at a disadvantage in the admissions process.”
So are we supposed to think Penn doesn’t really mean that statement?? Based on what? Hearsay? Your gut?
What makes sense is that elite universities want confirmation that top-notch grades are actually deserved. And, once again contrary to much of the advice here, results of AP/IB exams can serve as that confirmation. An applicant who has received AP 5s in core subjects can much more safely forego subject tests that someone who hasn’t received top scores. If you’ve received 3s or below in core subjects, then I think you’d need extremely high subject scores to compensate.
I don’t work in admissions either, but honestly, the panicking over this issue seems excessive. There are so many more important parts of a student’s application. (But a caution–what may be true at one college may not be true at another–you need to try to determine how important subject tests are based on each’s stated preferences on their website, CDS, major requirements, etc.)
Based on this. http://pennwpadmin.wpengine.com/a-note-on-penns-standardized-testing-policy/
" Meanwhile, we’ve seen the SAT Subject Tests provide useful information about student preparation. While we have no preference for the SAT vs. the ACT, the SAT Subject Tests can provide insight into specific areas of study for students."
And this: https://news.upenn.edu/news/penn-announces-new-testing-requirements-applicants
“This change reflects our research that shows that, when considered in the full context of the application, the SAT Subject Tests are strong predictors of performance at Penn,”
I think if a student has strong tests in anything ACT, SAT, SAT subject tests and/or AP - these should all be reported.
I would not give Penn a song and dance about why you don’t have subject tests to submit. But you could have your GC write a note on your transcript that there were extenuating circumstances.
As for the debate as to are they truly optional or not- I am in the optional means required camp. Why- because the gcs at our school who previously worked in admissions at some highly ranked schools all say so as well as a highly regarded college consultant whose free webinar I attended.
@wisteria100 Ok so what would have the guidance counselor do because she would be willing to help me. WOuld ya have them just send an official email or have them attach something to my common pp. Sorry if I am being annoying I am nervous and very new to this.
@Penn95 Ok one final question to anyone willing to help. Should I have my counselor send a note saying there extenuating circumstances with my subject tests or should I just let it be now. I decided a personal email would be awkward and sound like I was blaming.
Do not do anything. It will not reflect well on either you or your family. Just sit, let it play out and hope for the best.
I would not even do that. At this point, any note from anybody will come across as whining IMO. One can take Penn at its word that applications without Subject Tests will not be at a disadvantage. Or one can choose to disbelieve. At the end of the day it is what it is. The OP is looking to go to Wharton which wants to train future business leaders. I’m not sure that making excuses vs. offering solutions will put one in the best light.
Don’t have your guidance counselor send in anything! If it’s any help, check out the accepted students from Penn thread in the spring… in the admittedly small sample size, quite a few didn’t send subject scores. Some were clearly low income or URMs, but not all, including one who said she had no hooks and income of more than $200,000 a year. And there’s this one, who also said she had no hooks and didn’t indicate she was low income:
“I wanted to post here because when I was scouring these message boards a few short months ago, I couldn’t find anyone with an application similar to mine (specifically no SATIIs and right at Penn’s median ACT score) who got in! So here’s proof for anyone who might be feeling discouraged about their chances; you don’t have to have perfect scores or a Nobel Prize in order to get in. You have to work really hard, step out of your comfort zone, keep good relationships with your teachers, and be honest in your essay and application. Difficult, but most definitely possible! Good luck to everyone applying in future years, and congrats to everyone who got in as well!”
Meantime, there were applicants with great subject scores who were accepted… and others who weren’t.
@daththiccboi when they send in their official college report (required by the college) they can make a note. Although I agree with most above. Just move on…it is what it is at this point.
They will have no idea who did or who did not take the subject tests from your high school, nor will they care as it compares to your app. Don’t call or email the reps about this. If the tests are recommended by any of the colleges on your list, take them.
I’m not sure how “nobody in my school has done it before” is an extenuating circumstance. Top tier colleges seek out students who are self-starters, not ones who simply do whatever has been done before. I would not call admission officers trying to make an excuse. If you have time to study and take any SAT II before the deadline then do so, if not they apply and be glad the schools you plan to apply to “recommend” and don’t “require” the tests.
Only a couple dozen schools require or recommend subject tests.
Unless your school is producing 50+ candidates for the most elite schools, the entire top 50 in your graduating class does not need to take subject tests. There’s no point in doing them if you decide to opt out of the HYPSM rat race or if your grades, SAT/ACT scores, and extracurricular activities don’t put you in range for elite schools anyway.
And, if “everyone” said you needed them, how is it your counselor’s fault that you didn’t take them?
How do you know what’s in the academic records of ~50 other students? People say a lot of things. It doesn’t make them true. If the colleges you’re applying to recommend the tests, take them.