<p>tokyorevelation9, I hare to be nitpicking about details in your argument. You are right, you didn't imply anything - you set up the opposition very clearly.</p>
<p>"jadedgrl what kind of education are you looking for? Do you seek a very expansive, career-oriented, pre-professional education with the resources of large world-class professional schools (i.e. Wharton, Huntsman, etc.) or do you want a rigorous education focused almost entirely on undergraduates and their interests and needs, with smaller classes, myriads of opportunities for research and study abroad, and more face-time with top professors in their fields (Princeton)."</p>
<p>The key word is "or" - it clearly marks that she is facing a mutually exclusive choice. </p>
<p>"I'm just saying one is known for this and one is known for the other." </p>
<p>No, you set up a mutually exclusive choice, based on stereotypes. If it was a simple mistake, and you actually aren't backtracking on a mischaracterization you were outed on, I apologize.</p>
<p>Just as the discussion was getting interesting. I'd say that the wording of your initial post quite clearly made it black and white and also established a hierarchy, despite you backtracking in later post and claiming that you meant something different. However, since it was a simple misstatement on your part, so I apologize.</p>
<p>As for the issue of Princeton being a bastion of elitism and preppyness, I have found it to be both true and false. There is a section of the social scene at Princeton that very strongly contains these elements, mostly centered around certain eating clubs and the fraternities and sororities that feed into them. The rest of the student body is - as PtonGrad2000 points out with his slew of data - quite diverse. One does not negate the other, both exist on campus.</p>
<p>However, these types of social circles will be found on any Ivy League school. Maybe they stand out more at Princeton because a lot of the undergraduate life is focused on the eating clubs. Fraternities and sororities at Penn and Final Clubs at Harvard have a much more marginalized position in comparison.</p>
<p>I can agree with that statement. The point is that students in general do not feel marginalized themselves because of what you call "elitist/preppy" culture.</p>
<p>That culture exists everywhere my friend, where have you been? I'm just saying that it doesn't even come close to dominating the Princeton social scene. You can't argue with me here, I'm a current student and I see what happens here with my own eyes. Where are you?</p>
<p>Ironically, I just got back from Princeton, NJ! Had some not-so-bright run-ins with the locals. Consistent with past experience. Probably means nothing about the school, of course.</p>
<p>"You can't argue with me here, I'm a current student and I see what happens here with my own eyes."</p>
<p>You discounting someone else's experiences based on your own anecdotal evidence is not a valid argument. The fact that you are a student there increases the amount of weight I put on your individual experience and statements, but it does not mean all my counter-arguments are automatically rendered moot.</p>
<p>Please, spare me snipanlol. Someone who is not part of the Princeton community really cannot know whether preppy culture is predominant or not. I'm sorry but sometimes the formal logic does not always apply.</p>
<p>I agree, sometimes formal logic doesn't apply. However - rhetorics still matter. A complete stranger claiming to be an authority on the matter is simply not going to convince me or make me completely discount my own personal experiences.</p>
<p>I might not have the amount of experience of the community that you do, but I have visited numerous times and thus formed some sort of understanding of the community. The way I see it is as I said before - this "preppy" scene is centered around a few social organizations on campus, with their hangaround wannabes. To a degree, the Eating Club system in itself fosters cliquishness, as people tend to hang out mostly with people in their club.</p>
<p>Fine, so be it. Everyone is entitled to form an opinion. I'm just telling you that my observations as a student conflict with your opinion, and I'm telling you how they conflict. What you are saying is a gross generalization of the Princeton undergraduate student body, and I'm trying to present to you what, in my opinion, is a more accurate depiction of the Princeton social scene. I would have to disagree with you about the eating clubs, as the eating clubs I feel are egalitarian in a way because everyone in every class can come and enjoy themselves with whomever they want on Thursdays and Saturday nights at the eating clubs for most of the year. Its a great way for underclassmen to meet one another, and also for underclassmen to meet upperclassmen. Eating clubs are really not as exclusive as many people like you construe them to be.</p>
<p>Sorry, "this scene" should have read "this 'preppy' scene" to make it clearer. You yourself acknowledged that that scene exists and is centered around a few social clubs.</p>
<p>As for Eating Clubs in general, I agree with you, to a large degree many of them are quite egalitarian. Sure, everyone can walk around on Thursdays and Saturdays.</p>
<p>However, the clubs are also cliquish, since people self-select to such a large degree. Upperclassmen tend to hang out mostly with people in their eating club, and a lot of the social life tends to focus on the club.</p>
<p>Upperclassmen hang out with people in their eating clubs because they eat together there. Thats why its called an eating club. I don't blame upperclassmen for hanging out with upperclassmen more than underclassmen. I'm glad that I know a lot of very friendly upperclassmen in two of the eating clubs who encourage freshmen to come to the clubs. Upperclassmen know they have a great social environment, and they're trying not to have it be so exclusive by inviting freshmen. The Eating Club council recently had a program where as many freshmen as possible were invited as guests to the eating clubs for dinner to get to meet the members and the club leadership. Its really not very cliquish I think.</p>
<p>Hmmph, looks like this thread has degenerated into a heated debate about the exclusivity of 'eating clubs'.</p>
<p>So what if the eating clubs are 'preppy' and 'cliquish' or whatever. I mean, c'mon, jadegrl, there are a gazillion other compelling reasons to attend Princeton. </p>
<p>'Eating clubs' should be the last thing on your mind when deciding on college. The Princeton social life doesn't just center around these clubs. One has only to look at the list of student organizations/ co-curricular activities offered on the Princeton website to know that there are plenty of opportunities for social engagement outside the eating clubs.</p>
<p>As a Penn grad with a daughter who is going to join Princeton this year, I will say that both are excellent places and you will be happy at either one of them. My daughter chose to apply to Princeton ED instead of Penn because she felt Princeton was more undergraduate focused. I don't think racism is a concern in either place.</p>