<p>I worry that the diversity factor at Princeton is too low. Perhaps it is simply hard to get into because of its small size not because Pton draws great minds. I worry that Princeton is not as creative or intellectually stimulating as say Harvard. Whenever I am in a "whitebread" environment I notice everyone plays it safe intellectually. However having said that the Princeton campus is gorgeous and I do find that appealing no matter how shallow that appears. The courses are wonderful and the faculty appears to be there for the undergrads. Somebody please comment on the creative factor at Princeton. And I am not talking about politics I am talking about taking risks intellectually. Preppies look good but some play it too safe intellectually in my experience.
Thank you for whatever help you can offer I am on the fence between applying ED Pton, H or Y.
KH</p>
<p>Princeton didn't sacrifice thousands of white and asian applicants for you to say they don't have diversity.......</p>
<p>Unless things have changed, Yale has more private school grads than does Princeton. </p>
<p>My d finds conversation in class really exciting. She can raise challenging questions or nuanced points and find that others respond in creative ways, challenging her in turn. Outside of class she finds students interested in all sorts of things and willing (and able, thanks to Princeton's generous funding) to go around the world to follow those interests. She does find students down to earth and appreciates this, having very little use for intellectual showboating or arrogance. </p>
<p>My d is not a preppy and did not grow up in what you describe as a "white bread environment." She does have many friends at Princeton who went to top prep schools and are also very intellectually curious people. She was an NM Scholar, Intel semi, etc., but most of all she is someone who is very impatient with shallow discussion! And she absolutely loves Princeton. In fact, although she is into the sciences she has tended to favor the humanities and social science classes at Princeton because she does not want to miss the change for discussion and debate with other students offered there. Btw she has a diverse group of friends. </p>
<p>I have heard my d and other students say that, glittering though Princeton's faculty is, it's the students who make the school. </p>
<p>Good luck with your decision.</p>
<p>The preppy image is behind the times. There's some of that, but some of so much else as well. The 09 class was 35% minority and the percent of students gettng aid was the highest in the school's history. Students who enroll at Princeton are not intimidated by the "intellectual "risk" of the mandatory senior thesis, the "competitive risk" of the grade deflation policy, or the "social risk" of the eating clubs. My child says all the students in his classes at Princeton are brilliant and the variety of talents and interests among his classmates is breadth-taking. I doubt there are many Princeton students who graduate and say, "If I had to do it over ago, I wish I had gone someplace else because Princeton was not sufficiently creative or intellectually stimulating."</p>
<p>Even 30 years ago, there was a thread of brilliance and sheer love of intellect at Princeton. The professors there treat you as though your thoughts matter. My D says the school now has 3 groups. 1. Kids who are primarily athletes. Note I don't say all athletes, just kids who are recruited and are there primarily for their athletic contribution. 2. Hard-core science, engineering, and math students, focused largely on their subjects. 3. Lots and lots of extremely interesting and very very intelligent fun kids.</p>
<p>You will find kids from prep schools in all categories, and the concept of a preppy is now more political than anything else, i.e. how many republicans are there. And, the place is now visibly diverse.</p>
<p>Wonderful thank you for your responses.</p>
<p>Is there an implication that the hardcore science, engineering and math students at Princeton are not interesting, intelligent and fun? Hm ...</p>
<p>no the question is this....are the ptons brilliant or are they bookish...why are there so few creative people coming out of that school.... brooke shields and f scott are the only two listed out of triangle.................take a look at the lampoon........countless creative types... yes hardcore science is wonderful.........but MIT has that media lab..............what is cooking that is new experimental and creative at Pton? no implication flat out question because it worries me that they namedrop dead people from 60 yrs ago........so is there brilliant creative risk taking intellectual life that is the question mama!</p>
<p>Kathy Henderson, I understood your question, and I think it is an interesting one.</p>
<p>My post was in response to Alumother's, about whether the three pieces of the student universe she described, (1), (2), and (3), were meant to be disjoint, or overlapped.</p>
<p>well can someone be so kind as to respond to my lastest post thanks-</p>
<p>Kathy:</p>
<p>You shouldn't apply to Princeton. Your questions are valid and your perceptions are based on your personal biases. Perceptions are hard to change. No matter what any one says or does, you will always have a doubt in your mind. Go where you feel you will be comfortable. Good Luck.</p>
<p>My daugher's sense of the three groups would be a set of overlapping circles - clearly the hard core science etc. kids are intelligent, they are interesting if you are interested in their topics, but they don't fit her definition of fun. It's just her definition, remember. </p>
<p>And Kathy? Jimmy Stewart, Madison Smart Bell, Toni Morrison, Joyce Carol Oates, etc. I agree with Simba. If this is your perception of Princeton and you think MITs media lab will foster more creativity why fight it?</p>
<p>Thank you everyone for a lovely discussion... I am just not sure and I appreciate your advice one and all.</p>
<p>Alumother: thanks for the explanation.</p>
<p>Jonathan Safran Foer's previous novel Everything Is Illuminated, generally accepted as brilliant, was his senior thesis at Princeton. He is probably the youngest respected best-selling novelist since Bright Lights, Big City came out. The Rule of Four -- another best-seller full of intellectual pyrotechnics -- was written by two friends, one from Princeton and one from Harvard, I believe, and was set at Princeton. At least one female student last year had her novel brought out by a major publisher as well; I have the specifics on another computer. If you are looking for creativity, do investigate the incredible Atelier program (not the French language theater by the same name) on campus: <a href="http://www.princeton.edu/main/news/archive/S11/35/09Q23/index.xml?section=featured%5B/url%5D">http://www.princeton.edu/main/news/archive/S11/35/09Q23/index.xml?section=featured</a> This gives students the opportunity to work in small groups with world-class performing artists. It's just an amazing opportunity. As you can see from that article, demand for the program has been so great that the university has expanded it.</p>
<p>I have many more examples in my files but am not on my home computer. I don't think P's admissions people are all that into intellectual name-dropping. That may be the problem you ran into on your tour. </p>
<p>You might look at the websites of the Nassau Weekly and Quipfire! (improv satire) for edgy stuff. Also look for Greenlight magazine. I would post the links but, again, am not on my computer. I know there is tons of other stuff but don't have easy access to it here. If you are still around next week I will post more links.</p>
<p>Fwiw, my d chose to apply ED to P instead of to H in part because P has such rich FOR-CREDIT programs in dance and acting. At H these are extracurricular. </p>
<p>The only problem my d has run into at P is that there are simply way too many interesting students and amazing opportunities and just no way enough time to do it all.</p>
<p>Great advice thank you so much!!!!</p>
<p>Alumother, in your opinion, about what percentage of the school fits into each of your 3 catergories?</p>
<p>bobisbob - I will have to ask Aludaughter. One other thing I can do to give you a feeling for the school culture, albeit anecdoctal is this. Aludaughter says she feels that Princeton is home. So I will describe her characteristics and then if you match them in anyway you can assume that if A=B and B=C C will at least approximate A. She is left of center politically, very social but doesn't have any interest in getting falling down drunk, is very involved in dance and theater, loves to study (yes, really) and talk about intellectual topics but also loves Buffy the Vampire Slayer. If you saw her walking by you would think she is kind of California preppy/arty. Probably she would be walking with friends. And, she was one of the top 5 students in her class in high school (they didn't rank) - her strongest subject besides performance arts is mathematics....but I will ask her about her perception of the percentages.</p>
<p>What, exactly, is "California preppy/arty"?</p>
<p>The short answer to the intially posed question, would be "both."</p>