UPenn v. UChicago

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Chicago ✅
1

<p>I was accepted to The College at Penn and I was also admitted early as a University Scholar at Chicago. I need some help deciding.</p>

<p>Intended major: Economics (also interested in Physics and Philosophy)
Future Career: Ph.D. or Law School</p>

<p>Academic Rigor: Chicago is the world leader in Econ and Penn is top-tier in it as well. I don't think I'd be missing out on either front. But Penn has greater flexibility in its strengths and I am not positive about my major. I think I would be right in saying that all my possible majors are very strong at both schools. Also, I am really attracted to the seminar-style common core of Chicago but I imagine Penn has enough interesting liberal arts classes to satisfy this desire. I love a challenge at both but am not particularly competitive. </p>

<p>Social Life: I'm not put off at all by Chicago's quirkyness, in fact I would like it a lot. But I am fairly social and the level of activity seems much higher at Penn. More social, easygoing and especially fun would be a better way to describe it. However the traditional nature of Chicago and the great humor of the students is very attractive. Penn's level and diversity of activity is amazing though. </p>

<p>Location: Chicago and Philly are both great historical and cultural cities. Philly seems much more accessible but Chicago appears richer in substance. Both seem great, not too sure about this one.</p>

<p>Faculty: Chicago has endless Nobel Prize winners, but Penn is equally impressive. Chicago wins in Econ faculty bar none. I think Penn's accessibility might be an issue. Outside of Econ I think Penn has the upper hand of interesting professors though. Penn is much more flexible and strong overall.</p>

<p>Housing: This actually seems pretty similar in terms of the close-knit community I'm looking for. Obviously both have great House-style living communities. It appears Chicago's houses are more involved internally compared to the majority of Penn, except for a few very tight houses in particular. I guess accessibility to campus is an unknown.</p>

<p>Outlook: Chicago is geared more toward the academic track, with law school a strong possibility, while Penn is slightly more worldly. I don't think this is a problem but it is a point. Penn gets much better named recognition if I were to enter the business world. Only intellectuals know Chicago exists, but this is great for academia. </p>

<p>Chicago is slightly cheaper and Penn is less far from home in NY. Doesn't really matter.</p>

<p>Any input on the pros/cons listed above would be greatly appreciated.
Also any experiences with either would help me out.</p>

<p>Thanks!</p>

2

<p>I’m also trying to decide whether or not to attend UChicago. However, having lived in downtown Chicago for a good chunk of my life and in the suburbs for the rest, I can easily tell you Chicago is better than Philly. I’ve visited Philly a few times (once to visit Penn), and I thought it sucked compared to Chicago. It was one of my few negatives about Penn.</p>

<p>Chicago is very friendly. Huge sports city (better than Philly, look at my username). Lots of activities to do. Cleaner than Philly. Weather is similar. I like Chicago better than NYC (visit there a lot), so yeah. Just my 2 cents. </p>

<p>Also, a consideration. If you go to Penn, you can take classes in Wharton (econ/business).</p>

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<p>That is some good insight, although a little biased :slight_smile:
I have to visit but I do think Chicago has an edge.</p>

<p>Hmm. I chose not to apply to Wharton but that is a good point. Part of their breath and flexibility.
I wonder if Chicago lets you take a law school class…</p>

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<p>I know it’s biased, but I can’t describe it. I was sorely disappointed when I visited Philly for the first time. It’s just not the same. Chicago is way more beautiful, cleaner, etc.</p>

<p>Plus, nothing like going to a Bulls game. I’ve seen those 76ers games v the Bulls on TV. More Bulls fans than 76er fans. Also, if disappointment is your cup of tea, we have the Chicago Cubs. </p>

<p>Navy Pier, Millennium Park, Taste of Chicago, Lolla… the list goes on and on. Philly has that one famous street with all the Gothic stores and a few historic landmarks, lots of smog, very very blue-collar (I don’t feel Chicago is like this).</p>

<p>Biased, but hey. I’ve lived here all my life, and usually people are sick of the cities they live in. Not me. Sorry, just needed to be a bit more specific on my logic :).</p>

<p>I don’t know about UChicago and law classes, but I also seem to be in the same position as you about UChicago’s social life. I enjoy the intellectual convos, but I’m scared that there might be a very small social life…</p>

<p>I do think that if you’re set on Econ, there’s no way to pass up UChicago if you can handle everything else it throws at you. It’s the best of the best in that category. Penn is good, but it’s known for business and not Econ particularly.</p>

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<p>

</p>

<p>Yes you can! One of my friends is doing it. I can give you the contact information of a few people you might want to email and ask for details (pre-law advisors, etc). Contrary to popular beliefs, UChicago now has pretty good law school placement. (This is just based on my qualitative observations, since all of my friends applying have gotten in tier 1 law schools - two to Columbia, one to Harvard, one to Yale, four to Chicago Law).</p>

<p>If you have questions about student life and other related issues, feel free to shoot me a message.</p>

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<p>Going down the list:</p>

<p>1) Financials. I don’t know how well your f. aid package is at Penn but I also received the university Scholarship two years ago along with f. Aid for chicago. It really helps out.</p>

<p>2) Academics. I don’t know about the strength of Penn’s programs so I won’t comment about that here. Chicago economics is rigorous and thorough. There’s a quantitative basis for every model you learn and you will have the opportunity to take electives with professors whose names you’ve heard of. And from personal experience, more times than not these professors will have sharp insightful lectures that inspire you. Myerson teaches and undergraduate class. Levitt teaches an undergraduate class. Fogel teaches an undergraduate class. List teaches an undergraduate class and the feedback is astoundingly positive.</p>

<p>Physics-wise: Fermilab, Argonne. Physics is physics is physics at the undergraduate level but there’s an astounding number of research opportunities. </p>

<p>3) Faculty: Again, I do not know how to testify regarding Penn’s faculty. However, in my 2 past years at this University I can with no doubt say the professors, postgrads, instructors really, really care. They care for your learning and even when they are apathetic to teaching they are more than willing to help during office hours and guide you to learn. This is from Nobel Laureates (whoot!) to postdocs, teaching assistants, etc. Not necessarily a representative sample, but take it for what you will. I also don’t know how true the claim of “upper hand of interesting professors” but there’s a tremendous interdisciplinary focus here at the uofc e.g. Nussbaum, List, in all departments. In terms of prestigious academic positions the UofC is seriously amongst the top (well and highest paid…)</p>

<p>4) Outlook: Penn certainly does not receive “much better name recognition” in the business world. I don’t know how much Penn’s credentials are worth in the lay world, but at least in the business world–last year’s summer analyst cohorts at Credit Suisse, GS, JP Morgan were filled with UofCers. A little bit less so with consulting firms (Bain is usually well represented). Also think about school-year internships. There’s a lot of firms that ask for part time work in Chicago. Don’t know how true that is for Philadelphia.</p>

<p>5) Booth classes. Yes. CCIB->you can take any of the Booth classes. Even if you completely disregard the above comment about investment banks and consulting firms, I can guarantee you the Booth name means something. Especially if you taking normal finance classes like investments, corp fin, etc.</p>

<p>Really, take the chance to go to both schools and talk to the students. I’m certainly open to discuss.</p>

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<p>I’m not very familiar with UPenn and I probably know no more about UChicago than you do as I’m a fellow admitted student for the Class of 2016. However, I can judge from your post that you are more inclined towards UPenn. As both are excellent schools, perhaps you should just go to the one you like better. Too much analysis doesn’t always help.</p>

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<p>

I received a 5k/year merit based scholarship that makes it very similar to Penn. The only other advantage is that outside scholarships affect the parental contribution dollar for dollar for University Scholars at Chicago. I don’t know how Penn handles that or if they would match the merit aid.</p>

<p>

Actually I’m leaning toward Chicago (on paper) but I wanted to try and give Penn its fair shot, as I am posting this in both forums. </p>

<p>I will be visiting both campuses in the coming weeks. I do think it will come down to the feel and type of students. Should I attend an admitted student day or just an overnight on a random day? I haven’t been to one before.</p>

<p>The comments on Chicago’s faculty and reputation in different aspects have been especially helpful.
This has all been great, relevant information, keep it coming!</p>

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<p>so far none of the replies touched on the kind of school culture and atmosphere of either school.</p>

<p>Both schools are outstanding institutions, and career wise, both will be terrific.</p>

<p>Another factor to consider is what kind of cohorts and culture you prefer? U Chicago’s life of the mind mantra is not just a propaganda. My son tremendously enjoys U Chicago’s core culture that can be summarized thus: you could go to a drinking party and end up talking about Kierkegaard with other students - and it feels normal. My son’s observation: where else you can talk about world of warcraft and then on a dime switch to a discussion on Hegel on a dime with the same kids. My son also tells me that it’s very gauche to flaunt one’s status or wealth. He told me that his friends who went to Princeton report the opposite - very status conscious. My son is extremely happy at Chicago where social excitement co-exist with more hefty intellectual pursuit, but this may not be for everybody.</p>

<p>I don’t have direct observation on U Penn undergraduate though I got MBA from Wharton - the undergraduate kids look rather preppy, but that was quite some time ago. UPenn does have a reputation for pre-professionalism - whatever that means. A friend of mine has a son who goes there and reported that there was too much pre-professionalism, meaning, it’s hard to find a group of students who are really into learning for the sake of learning. Now, this could just be really anecdotal example, and I have no way of verifying it.</p>

<p>So, my input is not to say UPenn does or does not have the same depth of intellectual bent. Or, whether U Chicago’s vaunted reputation for the life of the mantra is a good thing for everybody. What I am saying is, OP might benefit from looking into the cultural differences between these two schools, and see whether one fits his/her preference better. </p>

<p>That said, well adjusted young adults will thrive in a variety of places and cultures, and both schools are outstanding institutions and in all likelihood OP will do well in both places.</p>

<p>OP is in an enviable position. Good luck.</p>

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<p>I just want to add on to your point about housing. There is a big difference in terms of housing and dining between the two schools. At both schools, you have to live on-campus and buy a meal plan during your first year. However, if you choose to stay in housing afterward, Penn does not require students to purchase meal plans and Penn does not have designated “house tables” where you dine with your housemates. This makes a big difference because dining with your housemates on a constant basis contributes to the tight-knit feel we now enjoy at UChicago. Having been to dining halls at both institutions, I can also tell you that UChicago has a more diverse food selection and healthier food options than Penn.</p>

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<p>congratulations on your acceptance to both schools!</p>

<p>One thing I’d like to add is that you may be limited by your non-Wharton status if you decide you want to enter business - a route commonly taken by econ majors. I know individuals who have transferred from Penn CAS to other schools without undergraduate divisions for that reason. From what I hear, Wharton may be exclusive with regards to networking sessions, business fraternities, etc. Plus, you can imagine from an employer’s standpoint comparing the resumes of two individuals from penn - one from CAS and one from Wharton. I’m not saying it’s not possible, but I do think it is more difficult since you are ultimately competing directly with students from your own university when it comes to on-campus recruiting.</p>

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<p>a degree in economics from UPenn’s College (NOT WHARTON) is probably less impressive than one from Chicago.</p>

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<p>Agreed with Skrillexx. As a CAS student you are already competing with many, many Wharton students for the same position.</p>

<p>At Chicago, everyone’s on equal footing. You can get an edge by joining CCIB, but I hear it’s not necessary for an economics major.</p>

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<p>@nodairycreamer: Penn CAS Econ Degree > UChicago Econ Degree, though you could maybe say they are equal in the eyes of employers. </p>

<p>Penn > UChicago</p>

<p>However, visit both schools and go with your own personal fit.</p>

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<p>

Definitely not true in the liberal arts–Chicago actually has the advantage here. You could probably say that Penn has greater flexibility for undergrads at the university-wide level because of its different schools, but as a College student interested in Econ this only helps you if you want to internally transfer to Wharton, which is pretty difficult to do (there’s essentially a 3.8+ GPA minimum for this right off the bat). And while you could take classes at Wharton as a College student at Penn, you can also take classes at Booth as a College student at UChicago, so there isn’t any difference in that regard. </p>

<p>

There are plenty of people of this sort here, enough that it shouldn’t deter you in the least. I will admit that I sense our collective level of extracurricular activity, though high, is hurt by the academic rigor of the school (but I guess that’s a trade off). </p>

<p>

You’re certainly a lot closer to downtown at Penn, but as someone who’s spent a lot of time at both Penn and UChicago, I can tell you that Hyde Park has a lot more character than University City. Another trade-off (though public transport isn’t really a hassle here IMO). </p>

<p>

I don’t think the number of Nobel winners matters much, to be honest. Chicago’s econ is certainly more prestigious, but I can’t comment on its accessibility/teaching. Saying that Penn has more “interesting” professors is a grossly untenable characterization, though. What makes you see Penn as being a stronger academic school overall?</p>

<p>Though I in no way endorse his legal views, this recent quote from Justice Antonin Scalia might be helpful here:
“[The] University of Chicago is one of two or three of the most formidable intellectual institutions in the world; a really impressive place. You’re lucky to be here.”</p>

<p>

All of Penn’s houses are close/on campus, while UChicago has several smaller dorms that are more removed. However, I’d strongly advise you to choose the largest, most social dorms (Max P and South, and you can be assured of getting one if you so desire), which are both on campus anyway. So that’s not an issue. On the house issue, I think Chicago’s houses tend to be larger than Penn’s (the ones in South are 100 people), but this depends on the dorm. Penn has the added advantage of specific housing programs if you’re interested in that sort of thing.</p>

<p>

This isn’t true for business–Chicago has great name recognition. I’m fairly certain you would confer a small advantage in job placement from Wharton over Chicago, but the difference between Penn’s College and the U of C likely is not a significant one.</p>

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<p>ThisIsSSU</p>

<p>Why is Penn > UChicago?</p>

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<p>I meant on a general basis, Ivy League prestige etc., but yeah comparing elite schools like these is splitting hairs.</p>

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<p>^^ “Ivy League prestige” only works for lay population. In the professional world, no one cares, and most people wouldn’t even be able to tell you which prestigious universities are Ivy Leagues.</p>

<p>One other comment to the OP. You wrote:</p>

<p>“Outlook: Chicago is geared more toward the academic track, with law school a strong possibility, while Penn is slightly more worldly. I don’t think this is a problem but it is a point. Penn gets much better named recognition if I were to enter the business world. Only intellectuals know Chicago exists, but this is great for academia.”</p>

<p>This isn’t true. If anything, Chicago has a bigger name than Penn in the business world, and many people don’t know that Wharton is Penn’s business school so you don’t reap those prestige benefits if you’re not part of Wharton.</p>

<p>It’s an unfortunate reality that among high school students (and even among college students), very few understand just how prestigious UChicago is in the professional world. It’s extremely well known and respected by educated people, particularly in the business world where UChicago is known as a top 5 business school. I work in international diplomacy overseas, and I can tell you that pretty much everyone I work with (which includes ambassadors, representatives to the UN, consuls, and everything in between) is familiar with the school, despite the fact that most people here haven’t even lived in the U.S. And when you tell people you went to Chicago, they often associate it with Chicago’s business school, Booth. Chicago is nationally and internationally famous for not just economics, but business as well. I don’t even work in business, and I’m well aware of that.</p>

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<p>Among tippy top elite schools, there is practically no advantage or disadvantage for one school or the other in the eyes of prospective employers. U Penn or U Chicago - practically no difference. It’s ludicrous to say Penn > Chicago or the other way around. Especially questionable where one comes up with the Penn CAS Econ > Chicago statement. If anything, the reverse is more likely to be the case. Don’t confuse the Wharton prestige with that of Penn Econ. </p>

<p>That said, there might be a difference due to the kind of experience and exposure one had in each school. For instance, business networking might be more solid at Penn- even there, it all depends on individuals. There are plenty of opportunities to network at Chicago if one wants it. Or, alum network: this, I see, might give advantage to Penn. However, watching my son go through all this, my impressions was that U Chicago alums in the financial sector were more motivated to reach out to undergraduate since there is certain amount of circle the wagon mentality - Chicago is not as well represented in Wall Street as other tippy top schools - but this is changing rapidly also last few years.</p>

<p>I think at the level of U Penn and U Chicago, the cultural fit is far more important. Two schools will confer a similar level of prestige and post graduate employment opportunity. However, these two schools have distinctively different culture.</p>

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<p>ThisISSU, Phuriku:</p>

<p>No need to make completely unsupportable (and probably wrong) statements such as Penn Econ > UChicago Econ or that UChicago has a bigger name in the business world than UPenn. </p>

<p>These are two peer schools in virtually every sense of the word - but the schools have different predominant cultures. Fit is key here, as it would be when comparing other similar schools (such as UChicago and Duke or whatever).</p>

<p>(Also, Phuriku, for what it’s worth, I’ve found that, in the professional world especially, people are keenly aware that Penn is an Ivy League School, or that UChicago is a very top school, but outside of that, these schools have much more muted reputations, which is perfectly fine.)</p>