<p>Okay this might sound like a stupid questions to some who are too blinded by the "prestige" of the ivies to even consider, but I got accepted at Swarthmore and UPenn and I really cant decided where to go. I mean if I go to Swarthmore I can take classes at UPenn if I really want to AND have the benefit of being in the small community and not dealing with like 20000 other students but on the other hand UPenn is a good school and it has a great endowment of which a large part goes to research I want to study biology so idk and yeah going to an Ivy would be nice lol but i care more about where I would benefit from the most so help!</p>
<p>This is definitely not a stupid consideration. Not that a superior level of prestige should easily attract someone away from a much less prestigious school in any case, but Penn and Swarthmore are not in two different worlds of prestige. Swarthmore is a top 3 LAC and very highly regarded. </p>
<p>It is definitely a tough choice, as it’s essentially choosing between opposites. Take the large research university located in a kind of gritty area in the city, or the small, cozy liberal arts college in the nice suburbs? You’ll have to figure which atmosphere to you prefer, but I can offer some perspective on other things.</p>
<p>As far as research goes, Penn is inherently going to offer you a lot more opportunities–it’s a research university (and a powerhouse at that). There are so many different ways to get involved in research, whether through the Bio department, the med school, or completely different areas if you decide bio isn’t your thing. It’s typically very easy to do research–you’ll have to take the initiative, but professors are usually very willing to take on undergrads. I can’t speak to the opportunities at Swarthmore, but needless to say Penn is going to have more.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t seriously consider the cross-registration abilities in your decision. I don’t know anybody who has cross-registered at any other schools in the Quaker Consortium. That doesn’t mean it never happens, but it would really be a huge pain to take a class elsewhere. It seems very impractical, and between class, research, and other activities, commuting to and from Penn or Swarthmore will be a burden. </p>
<p>Penn is a big school. It’s academic offerings are much greater than Swarthmore’s, and you have the freedom–and are encouraged–to take classes across different schools and even in the graduate schools. However, it in undoubtedly much more pre-professional than Swarthmore, which is known for being quite intellectual. </p>
<p>Every element of each school really has its pros and cons. Maybe visiting them will be able to convince you one way or the other. If a tight-knit community is one of your most important criteria, you might immediately realize Swarthmore is the place for you. Maybe you’ll realize it’s not what you want. It’s the best way to help make the decision, though.</p>
<p>It’s true that you could go to Swarthmore and take classes here, but you should know that it’s not so fun to do so, as CAPA pointed out. I’ve known one kid from Swarthmore and one from Bryn Mawr to have done it, and while they seem to have enjoyed the opportunity, they had problems with getting here sometimes because of the weather and they also missed out on a lot of the experience because of the interaction with professors in office hours, etc. </p>
<p>I know Penn can seem overwhelming because of the number of students, but it’s actually really not crowded and everybody still manages to know everybody. I can guarantee you that there’s never a time that I’m walking on Locust Walk and don’t see someone I know.</p>
<p>Great options! I guess it all depends on what kind of environment you want. Swarthmore is definitely a very highly regarded and unique school from what I’ve heard. One girl I met who goes to Swarthmore (I actually met her while taking biology in the summer at Penn!) said that she had gotten into a lot of other schools (I think that included a few ivies), but chose Swarthmore. I hear it’s tiny though, but some people really seem to like that. It’s one of the schools that I felt had a very unique vibe (from the bit of research I did on the school, although I never visited so I definitely would not be the best person to ask).</p>
<p>hmm okay thank you i really appreciate your responses I’m going to visit Swarthmore on the 15th and 16th and I’m going to try to visit Penn but from the sounds of things Penn seems to sound more…for lack of a better term…fun =D So I think Penn is the place for me, now if only people stopped confusing it with Penn State…</p>
<p>At Upenn you will be taught by grad students in large classes. At Swat, you will be taught by profs who will send you chicken soup when you don’t show up to class because you are sick.</p>
<p>Totally different schools.</p>
<p>UPenn has a marching band and frats.</p>
<p>Swat is smaller, more intimate.</p>
<p>Congrats to the OP. Both schools are awesome.</p>
<p>I was a biology major at Penn. While it’s true that your first-year introductory courses will be much larger than you would find at Swarthmore, many if not most of the upper level courses (almost all 300-level and above) are taught as seminars, and so there will be 20 people or less and the professor discussing journal articles rather than just dry lecturing. I found the upper-level bio classes to be very intimate, and I really got to know the professors well (and actually I still keep in touch with two of them now).</p>
<p>On the other hand, Swarthmore has what I think to be the most beautiful campus I’ve ever seen. Once in a while on a particularly nice day in the springtime I would take the R3 out to Swarthmore and study out in the arboretum. Really a splendid place indeed.</p>
<p>mrscollege: Obviously you’ve never gone to Penn. Math/science cours (ie. large lecture courses) are not taught by graduate students. You can have recitations (basically like small study groups) with grad students, but that’s true at all ivies.</p>
<p>You should know that employers, you can be sure, never confuse Penn with Penn State. Only uninformed people would confuse it with Penn State. I’ve personally never had any issues with that.</p>
<p>Best of luck!</p>
<p>Yes, that is true, I forgot to note that in my response as well–the graduate students are responsible for leading the recitation sections, which are basically like review sessions for you to go over material from class. Only members of the faculty (or their expert guests, if it’s a special topic) ever present the actual lectures.</p>
<p>so pennalum you are really satisfied with your biology experience at Penn then? because I know that Penn is like AMAZING for Business but i haven’t heard anything about its sciences really and how big where your freshmen lecture courses? and hmmmm </p>
<p>“At Swat, you will be taught by profs who will send you chicken soup when you don’t show up to class because you are sick.”</p>
<p>hmm getting soup does sounds very appealing for a college decision but im vegan so I basically hate all food lol but i love both schools and i think Swarthmore is amazingly pretty i just want to go somewhere where I will get a really good education in biology and have a great time so idk i guess ill c when i visit both schools</p>
<p>Actually Penn biology is pretty renown in terms of biomed. Penn’s med school’s ranked 3rd in research; bioengineering/biomed engineering is ranked 7th; also, there are plenty of places to find lab positions: CHoP, Penn Genome Frontiers Institute, Wistar Cancer Institute, etc.</p>
<p>well at the risk of being blunt or maybe misguided um I think theres a big difference between the Med School at a University and the college…im just saying not that I’m attacking you or anything but i just want to know what any people who have taken biology at Penn feel about the program? oh and thank you all for your help i really appreciate it : D
P.S. TA’s don’t actually teach any classes at Penn right? I’m just making sure so yeah?</p>
<p>I would most definitely have gone to UPenn, but that’s just personally.</p>
<p>There is indeed a difference between the medical school and CAS in that CAS faculty will be, for the most part, the ones teaching you, rather than med school faculty. Nevertheless, the Penn Biology faculty is really tremendous. They’ve built an entirely new and gorgeous biology building to accompany the historical Leidy Labs where you’ll have your intro courses, and so have also attracted some great young faculty members who, by definition, also teach undergraduates. Again, TAs do NOT give lectures; all they do is to lead the recitations (review sessions) to go over material from class. All of the lectures are delivered by members of the faculty! In fact, in the upper-level courses (300 and above), most of the time there is no TA; it’s a seminar-style discussion course led by the professor alone. The professors I did have in the department were, of course, brilliant, but also in nearly every case fabulous teachers. They were always eager to discuss my questions, whether in office hours or by email, and, as I mentioned earlier, I even still keep in touch with two of them. That is to say, they care about the students as people, and not only as pupils. Vis-</p>
<p>wow okay thank you pennalum i really appreciate you help your very adamant about this and I can see not only from your in depth answer but your unfaltering devotion to Penn that obviously they did something to make you fall in love with them so thank you for your help you have been very useful i guess i dont really see any reason not to choose penn that being said i should probably go to the Swat section and ask the question to get a more “liberal” answer but Penn seems like the right choice</p>