I’m trying to decide between UPenn M&T program and USC CSB (or CSCE) for ED. I’m interested in being a tech entrepreneur, not much into wall street, but I do want to take business classes to help broaden my knowledge. UPenn has the best undergrad business school, while USC has the benefit of Silicon Valley + one of the best CS programs. There is also a chance that I might not get into M&T program, and will have to settle with just a CS degree, which would be pretty sad; though, I’ve heard than you can still get a dual degree without being in a coordinated program. While at USC I’ll be happy with either CSB or CSCE(my backup choice) due to USC having the best CS department and being in Silicon Valley.
LOL
You are under-researched. USC’s isn’t necessarily a bad CS program, but Penn’s blows it out of the water. And what does that even mean, Silicon Valley connections? You’re going to be a college student. It doesn’t matter unless you come up with a start-up idea that doesn’t suck, and if you do, you’d be more likely to get funding at Penn than USC.
If this is actually a choice for you, just go to USC.
Couldn’t edit my post, but I wanted to say that: Even though USC isn’t directly in Silicon Valley, it’s still in California, specifically Los Angeles, which has it’s own set of entrepreneurial opportunities.
I do not like to use ranking as a means of justification; but since that is a popular mean on this site: USC CS ranking is always in the top #20, UPenn’s ranking falters(depending on the site, it can rank CLOSE to USC, or in the #60’s).
Great. Penn is in Philadelphia, which has its own set of entrepreneurial opportunities. See how irrelevant both of those facts are?
The whole “access to Silicon Valley” thing is one of the most overrated points in favor of a school I can think of. You’re not going to sit around having conversations with Peter Thiel over coffee just because you go to a school in California. Top-bucket tech companies fly out to Penn with regularity to recruit out of its CS program. I’m sure the same thing happens at USC; either way, the geography is actually meaningless.
I literally know dozens of start-ups at Penn that have gotten funding.
Great. I’ve seen university rankings that put completely arbitrary schools at #1. Hell, USA Today [ranked Penn as the top university in America](upenn-named-best-college-nationwide-for-2015) in 2015, but people don’t go around saying that’s true. Rankings are too variable based on methodology (and arbitrarity) to have any real meaning. Plus, CS rankings focus on Ph.D programs, which I would still say Penn’s is an excellent program to go to, with the opportunity to study under field pioneers such as Stephanie Weirich, Matt Blaze, Nadia Heninger, Benjamin Pierce, and Sanjeev Khanna.
But for undergrad, which is what you care about, Penn blows USC out of the water because there’s so much correlation with general undergraduate strength, and Penn is a stronger undergraduate program than USC.
My roommate got into both Carnegie Mellon SCS and Penn computer science, chose Penn due to general undergraduate strength, and has no regrets about it.
Like I said in the other thread, you would do well to attend Penn if you got into both schools.
First, I would do some research to investigate whether you have a good chance to get into either. Penn is a lot more selective than USC in general, and M & T is a lot more selective than Penn.
Second, if you are the rare student who is talented/fortunate enough to be able to get into either program with a high probability, you should really visit both schools and see where you think you fit in. A good fit will matter more than which one is better.
Third, Penn students tend to be talented, work very hard and be sociable. If you are used to being better than the students around you and that is an important part of your identity, do not go to Penn. If you are used to being better than the students around you, and you feel like that is a waste of time, and you want to work collaboratively with peers who can work at your level, Penn may be the place for you. If you have no interest in 40 hours per week or more of homework, do not go to Penn M & T or Penn SEAS. If you love computer science and math, have a long attention span, enjoy lots of homework and projects, and also like to go out and have fun at least once or twice per week, Penn may be for you.
Fourth, rankings are one thing and actual money is another. Penn computer science majors are averaging $90k with multiple job offers and 90% placement by graduation. If USC’s numbers are better than that, you should go there. Anyone can fill out a survey, but until they start making cash offers, I don’t care.
Fifth, Penn students tend to be naturally curious. If you are in SEAS, Penn allows you the ability to take a lot of classes in Wharton and the other schools. If you are a strong student, you could still apply for a dual degree, or just take some classes in Wharton to learn and explore your interests. They encourage it.
Sixth, Penn students have amazing opportunities for clubs, research, internships, and seeing speakers on campus, special programs, and other opportunities that often leave students limited only by the fact that they can only be in one place at a time. Penn’s hackathon, to give just one example, is the largest in the country.
@austrie Here is my opinion: For undergraduate studies it is better to go to a school that is overall very strong AND has a decent/good department in the area (you think right now) you are interested. it is very common for interests to change so it is better to be at a school that is strong across the board. Also the kind of connections that you will make at an elite school both with fellow students as well as alumni and faculty and the networking opportunities you will have are unparalleled. Here I dont see how it is even a dilemma. USnews ranks Penn CS at 19 and USC at 20. As an undergraduate CS major at Penn (not even M&T) you have higher chances of getting a job at an elite silicon valley firm than from USC. The two departments are not really that different in terms of quality and Penns superior overall strength and quality as well as prestige make it the clear choice. If it was a choice between Carnegie Mellon, I would say you have a point, but as you see from the post above it is common for turn down even that for Penn at the undergraduate level for CS.
DD1 turned down admission to a lot of schools to attend Penn SEAS in CS (now in NETS): Cal Berkeley (w/ Chancellor’s scholarship), Carnegie Mellon, UCLA, Columbia, Cornell, Michigan (with $80k merit), University of Virginia (Echols scholar), WUSTL, Tufts, University of North Carolina, University of Illinois CU, and U of Wisconsin.
A list like that, or even better, is not uncommon at all for a Penn student.
To be clear, I am not putting any of these schools down in any way. I would have been proud to send her off to any one of them. She was confident that Penn was best for her, and she is still confident that she made the right decision.
I should add that @Penn95 makes an excellent point. If in my D1s case, she had no broad interests outside of a CS major, had extensive ECs only in that area, and was certain that there was no chance that she would ever consider changing her major, then I think she may have been swayed by the chancellor’s scholarship and gone to Berkeley CS program. However, in her case, she is naturally curious about everything, so that was not the case.