UPenn vs Columbia

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Pennsylvania
1

<p>I guess people here will tell me a zillion pros for UPenn-- there's nothing wrong with that, but please, don't exaggerate. So I'm deciding my ED colleges and I'm down to these two. I'm kind of interested in social sciences: one of my essays is on feminism; I'm doing economics and politics at high school. However, my problem is that I'm not sure my interest will remain unchanged at college-- I'm not bad at maths or sciences, and I also have an EC experience on business (which helps when applying for UPenn). </p>

<p>My questions are, apart from Columbia's core curriculum and NYC, what else are good about Columbia for people like me? Similarly, apart from UPenn's business strength and comprehensiveness, what else are good about UPenn? Plus, any advice on which college seem to suit me better? Many thanks to everyone!</p>

<p>P.S. on-campus tour is not an option for me. I'm an international.</p>

2

<p>I was in a similar position as you, international and deciding between ED at these two schools and ultimately settled on Penn. I have not attended Columbia, but know people who have, so shall focus on this school very briefly and in a more general sense from what I learnt and gathered while researching the school.
Columbia:
1. NYC besides complementing your experience, also tends to have a draining effect on the school. Most students tend to venture out into the city instead of spending time on campus and at times maybe more interested in happenings in Manhattan rather than Columbia. The people I know that attend Columbia thereby complain of having lost out on a 'real' college experience despite the fact that Columbia has a distinct campus.
2. The Core should be seriously considered before even submitting an application here. About 1/3 of your classes will be part of the Core--and you will either love this or you will hate it. For example, if you were to decide that you would take since 3 classes in the sciences over your college years you would want these classes to be a part of those aspects of the sciences that interest you rather than what the Core dictates you must study. Yes, the Core ensures you gain academic breath; but if you are responsible and intellectually curious you would ensure that anyway without having to feel stifled with 'required' classes. </p>

<p>Penn:
1. Philadelphia is a major city but not overwhelming in the sense that NYC might be. Also, NYC is only a 90 minute bus-ride away!
2. Penn has distribution requirements (such as broad fields like 'Life Sciences') and you can take any class in that area to satisfy that requirement. Thus, you get more academic freedom to explore areas that interest you while simulataneously getting breadth.
3. Penn has a 'one university' concept, so you can take classes in any of Penn's schools irrespective of the one you are enrolled in. It's useful as well as stimulating to be able to supplement your liberal arts education with classes in business, law, design, education, engineering etc. In fact, you can even submatriculate into a graduate school if you demonstrate that you are ready to do so and earn your masters and undergrad in 5 years.</p>

3

<p>Thank you so much snooker1! You've really pulled me out of misery(well, to some extent)! Another question on UPenn if you can help: the whole university seems, at least to outsiders like me, like too business-oriented; how are UPenn's other majors like Gender Studies and International Relations? Are they kind of overshadowed by Wharton?</p>

4

<p>if you're having trouble deciding between ED schools you shouldn't be applying ED at all.</p>

<p>And Wharton doesn't overshadow the majors in the College.</p>

5

<p>Coolcc - you pose an interesting question.</p>

<p>Wharton is a dominant name in the business sector. At the undergrad level, Wharton has no real peer - none in the Ivy League and a small number of business programs among the top 10-15 universities. All of this amplifies it's uniqueness and excellence.</p>

<p>That said, Penn's other schools are powerhouses in their own right. In arts and sciences, the following book "The Rise of American Research Universities" updates the National Research Council rankings and adjusts them for the size of the school. The NRC rankings are the real gospel of rankings; adjusting for size measures pound-for-pound excellence of an institution. The results:</p>

<p>1 Stanford
2 Princeton
3 U. of Chicago
3 Harvard
3 Yale
6 Columbia
7 Duke
7 U. of Pennsylvania
9 Brandeis
9 Johns Hopkins </p>

<p>While I'm dubious of the Brandeis ranking, the overall chart does jive well with overall academic excellence. Penn's top/Top 10 ranked humanities and social sciences areas include economics, demography, anthro, English, languages (broadly defined), art history, and history. Full disclosure - Penn's weak spots are political science and the hard sciences; in those areas, Penn is ranked 10th to 25th. Net net, Penn is one of the giants in humanities and arts. </p>

<p>Areas like gender studies, ethnic studies and specialized international centers (e.g., India, France, southern Africa) are very strong and Penn's outreach to the local and global communities makes these areas stronger and more mulitfaceted. Go to the Penn site and look for things like the Humanities Forum, Kelly Writers House and Civic House. They add immensely to the quality of education on campus.</p>

<p>Nursing - Top 2 or 3 programs in the nation, and has been for years.</p>

<p>Engineering - top 25, but ranks fourth among the Ivies and a inch behind Columbia. Truth be told, only Cornell really matters among the Ivies in the engineering field.</p>

<p>So, while Wharton is a superstar, it shines only a bit brighter than the other undergrad schools. As an earlier poster mentioned, the One University policy allows you to seemlessly take classes and enhance your education from all of these components of Penn.</p>

6

<p>Penn's undergraduate IR major is superb, as are its various regional studies. Penn offers more foreign languages for study than any other Ivy.</p>

<p>Of course, Columbia's are every bit as excellent I imagine. The real difference is whether you want to spend your "college years" in NYC, or in, well, college...</p>

7

<p>
[quote]

And Wharton doesn't overshadow the majors in the College.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I don't think so. It certainly overshadow other schools of Penn to some extent. Want some quick proof? just check this forum and see how many threads are about wharton vs other schools at penn.</p>

8

<p>I've never met a person in Wharton who says "I go to Penn" and leaves it at that.....</p>

9

<p>I think that Wharton overshadows Penn in these forums, but I think that these forums are also a little removed from reality...</p>

10

<p>hahahaha.. one example:</p>

<p>at the beginning of a summer session class this past summer, we were all told to go around and introduce ourselves: name, year, and major.</p>

<p>so the class went on.. "my name is julie and i'm a junior majoring in communications". and so on.. "i'm brad, sophomore in chemical engineering".</p>

<p>the class went on and on, and what caught my attention was the sole wharton student in the class. he introduced himself this way,</p>

<p>"my name is josh, and I'M WHARTON" (with an authoritative tone of voice).</p>

<p>that was probably the highlight of my summer :]</p>

11

<p>majors in the college are not Wharton rejects, that would be Wharton overshadowing the College. They simply chose a different path, and its still very hard for them to get in.</p>

<p>Judging the posts on this forum is no good indicator. Look at the internship forum here, is I-banking the only good job to get, because that indicates that it is</p>

12

<p>
[quote]
I've never met a person in Wharton who says "I go to Penn" and leaves it at that.....

[/quote]

coz being a student in the best undergraduate business program really gives a boost in confidence.</p>

13

<p>Hey, if I could utter a word that was ultimately rather meaningless in determining my intelligence but gave me a perceived edge over the competition, I'd use it too.</p>

<p>It's not personal, it's business ;)</p>

14

<p>I think Wharton is too talked about on these forums. When you go to the Penn campus and see the people and talk and meet them, Wharton really isnt a big deal and i dont think it overshadows the other schools.</p>

15

<p>Trust me, you will absolutely love UPenn if you attend. I almost went to Columbia but chose UPenn instead. There's a huge international population, a great variety of good food that's inexpensive (food trucks here are super!!) and generally, outside of the college costs, you will be able to save a ton of money at UPenn. There is a great party scene here also, although come the start of classes I expect to get down to serious business. That said, N.Y. city is the capital of the world. I'm from Jersey, live about 45 minutes away from N.Y. and go there often, but I wouldn't trade UPenn for the world. It will ultimately come down to which school is better for your major.</p>

16

<p>Plenty of people just say "I major in Finance" or "Accounting" or something similar. Once you get here to Penn you'll find that nobody cares what school you go to -- you all ended up at the same university, and it was hard to get in.</p>

17

<p>And it is hard to bring yourself to leave it too...</p>

<p>I'd say Columbia is more of a grad-school kind of place. Yeah, I'd do grad school at Columbia. I'd love to, in fact. But for undergrad, there is no place like Penn :)</p>

18

<p>Does anyone have any clue about how famous and strong the South Asian Studies Department (SASD) is in Upenn? How is it compared with the South Asian Studies of other Ivys?</p>

19

<p>It’s one of the best in the Ivy League, and in the nation, with world-class (literally) resources and an international reputation:</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.southasia.upenn.edu/”>South Asia Studies |;

<p><a href=“http://www.southasiacenter.upenn.edu/about.html”>http://www.southasiacenter.upenn.edu/about.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p><a href=“About | Center for the Advanced Study of India (CASI)”>About | Center for the Advanced Study of India (CASI);

<p>Also, Penn’s Wharton School has a strong and internationally prominent India-centric focus, which is a bonus for those interested in studying business and economic development in India:</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.whartonindia.com/”>http://www.whartonindia.com/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

20

<p>The only people who think Wharton overshadows the rest of Penn are the people in it. The rest of us either don’t care or just laugh. While Wharton students are always complaining about the curve and what not, their workload is actually much lighter than a lot of majors in the college and most definitely nursing and engineering. Penn students in CAS do just fine when it comes to grad school admissions and getting jobs and the quality of education is the same or better. My only issues with Wharton is that many of the students (not the majority) become incredibly pretentious and elitist while there and think they are smarter than everyone just because they go to Wharton. Also the facilities are fancier than a lot of other places on campus because of alumni donations. However that being said, there is nothing inherently better about the students at Wharton compared to Penn as a whole.</p>