<p>So I've applied to both UPenn and Cornell, and I have a good chance of getting in to both (35 ACT, really strong ECs, the whole shebang). My family hardly has the means to visit either, so I want to have a pretty good idea of my preferences before acceptance letters start rolling in come April.</p>
<p>First, as far as I'm concerned UPenn CAS = Cornell CAS in terms of prestige and overall quality. Therefore my choice mainly comes down to fit and my area of study. I want to major in English with an emphasis in creative writing, maybe minor (or double major) in religious studies, and I'm a huge fan of theatre also so a good drama scene is a plus.</p>
<p>I started out leaning toward Cornell (I like its more rural setting and snowfall), but writing the "Why UPenn?" supplement turned me on to UPenn's offerings. Its English department is ranked #4 (compare to Cornell at #8) and its creative writing courses seemed more fun--though this could just be a matter of clever course cataloging. But UPenn also has the Kelly Writers House.</p>
<p>Is anyone here familiar with the KWH? If so, what's it like to experience? Are UPenn's creative writing courses truly great? I heard other posters say that CW was an area where Cornell beat UPenn, so my impressions from the course listings surprised me.</p>
<p>Then, how is Religious Studies at UPenn? Cornell has a religion major, but no department, and that was kind of off-putting. I found more courses tailored to my specific interests at UPenn, but it actually seemed less colorful than even Vassar's program, where I've also sent in my app. Can someone familiar with Religious Studies at UPenn tell me more about the program?</p>
<p>Thanks.</p>
<p>P.S. -- I realize I could have asked this <em>before</em> applying, but UPenn and Cornell are good about matching each other's finaid offers, so I figured I could save some money if I got into both.</p>
<p>Penn’s Religious Studies Department has long been ranked as one of the top 10 in the country.</p>
<p>But these are both great schools with equivalent academic reputations, and you should choose based on personal preference and fit assuming that you get accepted to both. I wouldn’t get too concerned about the rankings of particular departments or programs at this level, and especially as an undergraduate.</p>
<p>Keep in mind that the regular decision acceptance rate for both schools is extremely low (less than 10% for Penn), and even with the best statistics, admissions are basically a crap shoot.</p>
<p>^ Do you have a link for that, 45 Percenter? I tried looking for that on USNWR, but I didn’t see a list ranking Religious Studies departments.</p>
<p>If it’s that good–and Penn’s English program is, too–then does Penn have a humanities vibe? I’ve always been under the impression that it doesn’t–and indeed, the closest thing to an artsy major that cracks Penn’s top 5 is History (at 4%). And I hate studying history, haha.</p>
<p>Penn has as much of a “humanities vibe” as any national research university with many top graduate and professional programs. For example, while Penn’s undergraduate program includes the Wharton School, it also has about 400 English majors. And yes, several of Penn’s humanities departments are ranked among the top 5 or 10 or so in the country, including English, History, Religious Studies, Art History, Classics, Music, Romance Languages, Linguistics, and Comp Lit.</p>
<p>45 Percenter,
Ah, NRC. Shoulda thought to look there. Thanks for the links, they were super helpful because otherwise I would have been lazy and taken your word for it. Cornell was noticeably absent from both lists’ religion rankings, so UPenn has a huge leg up there. Then again, Cornellians can double major in English and Theater relatively easily (I love theater), and since it lacks a true religion department, religion’s woven into a good number of writing courses (e.g., some offerings include “The Bible” and "Milton).</p>
<p>But I do definitely get the impression that Cornell is more a more science-y school, so UPenn’s starting to sound like the better fit (if I can warm up to Philly that is–not used to big cities). Thanks for your help!</p>
<p>muhammad9211,
I’m glad you like confidence! Actually, I recognize that I’m not a “shoo-in”–few people are. I only said that I have good chances, and statistically, I do. My test scores are above the 75th percentiles; I’ve presided over three clubs and volunteered 280 hours with special needs kids among other things; and since writing’s my talent, my essays are solid.</p>
<p>But I won’t be crushed or mad at the world if I don’t get in. UPenn’s a lot older and wiser than me and I trust its decisions. :)</p>
<p>^ You also can easily double major in English and Theatre at Penn. Or English and Communication (administered by Penn’s renowned Annenberg School for Communication), or English and Cinema Studies, or Theatre and Communication, or Theatre and Cinema Studies, or . . . . :)</p>
<p>^ You’re right. I noted Cornell’s English/Theater pairing because I’ve heard it’s common among their theater kids–lots of screenwriting courses count toward both majors. But yes, Penn should present similar opportunity. I guess the difference is that Cornell only has something like 80 theater majors in a class, so it doesn’t take many to start a stereotype!</p>
<p>And so I continue to be swayed toward Penn. Thank you. :)</p>
<p>^ Penn’s academic Theatre Arts Program is much smaller than that (only a handful of majors in each class), but Penn has a large, diverse, and well-organized student-run theatre program, with 8 or more theatre groups that each mount several productions each year–some professionally directed and some student directed–and several other comedy and performing groups. Plus, the Theatre Arts Program has several productions each year. For a school of its size with a relatively small academic theatre department, Penn has quite a substantial and vibrant theatre and performing arts community. There’s even a separate physical space–the Platt Student Performing Arts House–devoted to the student-run performing arts groups:</p>
Penn sent me a likely letter three days ago. This not only means I’m in; it means I’m among the top eight or nine percent of accepted students. So I was a shoo-in, huh?</p>
<p>Proving people wrong makes me happy. I’m sorry.</p>
<p>45 Percenter, thanks for all your helpful posts here. Your comments encouraged me to think of Penn as a very viable opportunity, and so I accepted an interview with an alumna. Our bond was absolutely extraordinary and she got me so excited for Penn. You don’t know how thrilled I was to get the likely letter.</p>
<p>The Daily Pennsylvanian reports that only thirty percent of likely letter recipients will actually matriculate. So it is with caution that I call myself a future Philadelphian. But with unbounded enthusiasm I can say that I am thrilled. I will update this thread once more when I commit to a college. CC threads are like a story, and I want this one to have an ending.</p>
<p>If you haven’t already, you might want to drop your interviewer a note to let her know about the likely letter. I’ll bet she’ll be thrilled for you - and it would be a nice touch. Interviewers do find out the results of ‘their’ interviewees, but that’s generally the day after the students find out.</p>
<p>Congratulations! And good luck with your upcoming decision (hoping, of course, that you’ll end up at Penn ).</p>
<p>And having just quickly skimmed my previous posts in this thread, I don’t think I ever addressed your original question about Kelly Writers House. It’s an extraordinary resource, really without parallel at comparable schools, with events and guest speakers virtually every day and/or night of the year, and a tight-knit community of writers with diverse interests. If you haven’t already done so, be sure to thoroughly explore the KWH web site:</p>
<p>Cornell is a wonderful school and the campus is absolutely beautiful. I actually was accepted there for science graduate school last month (although I won’t be going since I got into more competitive places). However, I feel like Philadelphia opens up a lot of opportunities that you may not find in a place like Ithaca.</p>
<p>Another thing to think about is that Cornell is not only very rural, it is also incredibly isolated and hard to get to. The closest city is probably Syracuse and that is still 90 minutes by train. NYC is 4 hours away so you probably will not be going there much. It also gets very cold, snowy, and gray in the winter which may make you feel a bit sad.</p>
<p>^ Not to hijack this thread, but major congrats to you, Poeme, on your grad school acceptances! I’ve been enjoying your insightful posts here for the last several years, and am glad to see that your Penn liberal arts science education (physics major, right?) is “paying off,” academically speaking. :)</p>
<p>Do you mind revealing the grad schools to which you’ve been accepted, and in what field?</p>
<p>Different strokes for different folks. I had a cousin who lived in Chicago and Philadelphia, and the happiest times of his life were when he was in grad school at Cornell. Ithaca and Cornell were plenty big enough to provide interesting things to do, he loved the outdoors and felt claustrophobic and uncomfortable in urban environments, the scale felt manageable to him. When he needed to go someplace else, he got a ride. It may not be the choice I would make, or Poeme or 45 Percenter (both of whom, of course, chose Penn), but there are lots of people who can be really, really happy at Cornell. When I was growing up, Cornell, much more than Penn or Harvard or Columbia, was the model of what a university ought to look like, and where it ought to be: a beautiful place in a great college town, far removed from the distractions and intrusions of a big city.</p>
<p>Anyway, I am so out of date that I would have ranked Cornell’s English department higher than Penn’s, by a considerable margin, but based on the reputations of people who are mostly dead or retired now. But I know from children of friends, and from my daughter who once upon a time was very interested in writing programs, and had lots of friends in them, that Kelly Writers’ House is one of the premier writing programs in the country, especially in the context of a liberal arts college (i.e., non-BFA). In high school, my kid had turned down what amounted to a guaranteed Penn admission (long story), but several years later, with a lot more information and experience, she said, “You know, I sort of blew it if I really wanted to have a great creative writing program in college. I should have been paying a lot more attention to Penn and Hopkins than I did. That’s where the best programs are. At the time, I didn’t understand how different they could be.”</p>
<p>First, @plmdin, your advice to contact my Penn interviewer was stellar. We had already gotten back in touch, but often I need someone to remind me of social expectations, so I thank you for your message. My interviewer is an absolutely amazing person. I was on a college tour this past week and she, now a graduate student at Harvard, let me stay at her apartment right next to campus for the night.</p>
<p>Second, my thanks again go out to @45_Percenter, who provided some awesome leads on the Writers House. I’d seen them before, I think, but once they were fresh in my mind I became even more excited about Penn. Penn was the very first stop on my college tour, and the first place I went was the Writers House. I was able to meet a director there whom I’d previously video chatted with, and that was super cool. But a sophomore girl lounging on a couch provided me the greatest insight about the Writers House community; she struck up a conversation with me and displayed a brilliant passion.</p>
<p>Like @Poeme and @JHS stress, Cornell’s quaint and secluded college town is perhaps a better model for the college experience. For a while I agonized over Penn and its location, torn about its community and its concrete jungle. I don’t love cities. But finally I warmed up to the University of Pennsylvania and decided that, despite its urban backdrop, I would be happy there.</p>
<p>Then a last opportunity hit me out of the blue. Princeton University accepted me. I have yet to commit to any school officially, but I am almost certain now that I will spend my next four years as a Princetonian. I stopped by for a visit and it captured everything I loved about both Penn and Cornell. Its town was quaint and quiet, its campus gorgeous. But with Princeton’s English department and gigantic endowment came many of the benefits that made me salivate at Penn.</p>
<p>That I have to turn down excellent schools like Cornell and Penn in order to attend pains me, but I know that it is the right choice for me. My thanks go out to all the wonderful people in this forum who helped me discover Penn and who, through their unwavering kindness and assistance, have shown me that they genuinely care both about the school and about me.</p>
<p>Congratulations! You have phenomenal choices and, more importantly, you clearly APPRECIATE that you do. That will get you quite far in life, no matter where you go or what you choose to do. Best of luck wherever you end up, but it sounds like a tiger may be in your immediate future. ;)</p>
<p>Again, congratulations, and have a wonderful college experience and life thereafter.</p>
<p>Princeton sounds like a great fit for you. I hear the undergrads are quite happy they and they have strong departments across the board. I also heard the residential system is quite nice. </p>
).</p>