Yes, but shaming people who point out that the college pricing system has serious flaws is not productive either. So, everyone thinks it is fine that college price increases have WAY outpaced inflation and just about everything else (including healthcare), and can continue to do so ad infinitum? If no one speaks up, when or how will it change? There is a reason that there is 1.3 trillion dollars in student debt in the US. There is a systemic flaw and just saying this is due to “bad” choices is not going to help solve it. I personally believe the whole system is ripe for disruption.
Portercat- so go disrupt. MIT has virtually all of its courses online now as do many of the other platforms. But when you suggest to someone that they stop playing the higher ed arms race they get indignant- that’s for YOUR kid, not theirs. They want the whole package- the “elite” diploma, the experience hobnobbing on campus, the fun parties.
A kid from the NY Metro area can commute to virtually every campus in the CUNY system. Do you think that’s the solution the overtaxed/overleveraged parents on Long Island or in Westchester want to hear???
Who sounds angry now?
I don’t know how much the $65k schools really cost to educate a kid. Perhaps it’s not really 65K- they are just charging the full pay families $65k to fund merit and need based aid for the rest of the students. But I bet the ‘real’ price tag is still expensive - it just costs a lot to run, feed, house, maintain and pay lots of salaries and benefits.
But what if the schools dropped the price to say $50k and then reduced merit and need based aid. Would that solve anything? Would it make those schools more accessible for the current crop of can’t afford $65k, but don’t qualify for need based aid?
I actually like high-cost, high-aid strategies, because it means that full-pay folks really are full-pay in that they’re paying the full cost, and perhaps even a premium, which I’m totally okay with. The problem is that schools that take this route often (and I’m not thinking of Penn State as a specific example right at the moment, no wait, I am) end up dropping the “high-aid” part of the equation when finances get a bit tight.
I do feel bad for the people in PA. They seem to be like us in MI where they seem to have outrageously high-priced public unis without state aid to help defray those costs. (Someone correct me if I’m wrong about this.)
I don’t see anybody saying this. What I see are posters pointing out that middle income families aren’t owed a place at whatever they deem to be elite schools anymore than anyone else is. You’re angry that your family, and those like yours, are priced out of these schools? Where’s the righteous indignation for all the low income families for whom these were never financial possibilities? I feel for every kid who can’t attend the school they want, but the kid who has no money and few options is way higher on my list of concerns than the one who has to “settle” for Bard instead of Columbia.
The following link tracks the cost of tuition both in 2013-2014 dollars and in current dollars.
https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d14/tables/dt14_330.10.asp
In 1963, private school tuition costs $13,827 in 2013 dollars.
20 years later in 1983, there was only a mild increase to $17,333 in 2013 dollars.
20 years after that in 2003, tuition increased to $31,091 in 2013 dollars.
10 years later in 2013, private non-for-profit tuition averaged $40,614.
Many people on this board are employed by universities or have otherwise benefited from the current system, and any suggestion to change it will be met by “don’t move my cheese” accusations or worse.
Thank you for this post.
The situation you describe is so frustrating one begins to wonder what is the point of begin successful. The success has become just a set of number by which to pay taxes that can’t actually afford college for our children. I would also like to add that for the students coming to age right now, we are recession survivors. There were many hard years to survive and many of us continue to be hit hard by healthcare coasts since the ACA. It frustrates me when we look at the FASFA form that our income counts so hard against us. It isn’t like we’ve been making this same money for the past 15 years to allow us to save heavily for save college. Many of those years (2008 and on) were spent trying to hold onto jobs.
I am not employed by a university and cannot fathom how I’ve benefited from the current system except that I went to college (with aid), graduate school (with loans) as did my spouse, and then fast-forward, we were full pay when it was my kids turn to go to college.
So yes- upward mobility- we no longer qualified for the financial aid that our parents did when they were sending us to college.
I have no vested interest in the current system and I’m not shaming anyone. However, I am pointing out that the folks who call for disruption, for ending the cycle of “this is elite and this is not” seem to want that solution for OTHER people- they want their kids to go where they want them to go but they want it to be cheaper for them to do that.
This is illogical. If you want to disrupt- go disrupt. But complaining that “back in the day” your parents could afford to be full pay for you to go to Colgate or Denison or Lehigh or Cornell and now you cannot afford to be full pay at those schools doesn’t sound disruptive to me. And posting about how angry you are isn’t all that productive either.
If you want the “hidden gem” of the century, and your kid is interested in STEM, send him/her to Missouri S&T. A top ranked engineering department which is well known and beloved by companies and recruiters, out of state will run you a shade over 30K and a bargain at that price. Certainly more “elite” in mechanical engineering than a bunch of the technical universities which get a ton of love on CC and cost more than twice as much. Is it MIT? No. Is it better than a pretty robust list of private engineering U’s? Absolutely.
@“Snowball City”
The Western Undergraduate Exchange includes 15 western states - http://www.wiche.edu/wue
Not all schools in each state are part of it and not all majors at each school that do take part. Tuition is not always the same as in-state - it can be up to 1.5 times I think. It gives some kids affordable OOS options providing more choice than just their home state.
Let’s be honest. Using NY state as an example, choosing a school like Hamilton, Colgate, Skidmore, or Vassar over SUNY Binghamton, Geneseo, or Stony Brook (and 30 years ago, Albany would be in that category too), is a form of conspicuous consumption and serves to signal class status. It’s not for a better education.
WUE is also not available to every student at every school. At some schools it is very competitive to get it while others take all students who apply and even transfers.
Some Ohio schools take students from neighboring counties in PA or NY at instate rates. The south has a big group that allow instate rates if the major is not available in state. Minnesota and Wisconsin have a broad reciprocity agreement, and then also are part of the Midwest exchange which is more limited.
Specialty schools may have agreements, like the Vet school at Colorado State. Alaska used to have (still does??) programs to pay for programs not offered instate. My law school roommate had some aid but it required she return to Alaska (which she didn’t).
I think increased amenities and services for students is only part of the puzzle of increased costs. My husband has a small business and the cost of insuring his employees has grown at a rate far higher than inflation or cost of living. Universities have a huge number of employees to insure.
It is somewhat illogical to tell one person to disrupt. It is like saying that one voter should change a whole state’s college system. It takes input from the political community, the business community, parents and the culture overall. Yes, one person can help but can’t change everything on their own.
That being said, disruption is starting to take hold. A bunch of companies are removing the bachelor’s designation in hiring because in many cases/professions, it just hasn’t been a good indicator of performance. There have been recent studies showing how little is learned in many higher ed institutions. It may take a long time, and something else may take its place but there will be change.
https://www.glassdoor.com/blog/no-degree-required/
Is MIT offering fully online, accredited bachelor’s degrees?
In tech and IT when industry is booming (like now) no degree is required. As soon as there is a bust - BS in a relevant major plus 10 years of experience, please. You should ask all these high schoolers who elected not going to college in 1999 and 2000.
MIT’s online programs are classes, not accredited degrees. I wasn’t suggesting that doing MIT courses would result in an MIT degree. But if the issue is getting a high quality education on the cheap, without regard to the dreaded “elitism” of the allegedly elite schools, there is tons of material available to help someone do that.
My suggestions that posters “disrupt” is nowhere near the same as trying to change the political or business community. A kid who attends Rutgers for half the cost of attending Villanova doesn’t need to change the “system”- that kid just needs to take advantage of all the opportunities available at a large research university in order to get a high quality education. Don’t major in beer pong. Don’t spend Thursday nights pre-gaming in order to have a four day weekend of drunk parties punctuated by a few days of attending class.
Come to think of it, that’s my advice regardless of where your kid goes to college.
I find it ironic that an area of the country that has spent so much time and effort telling the rest of the country that no where else can compare (for colleges, for pace of life, for being part of “the in crowd”, etc) is now frustrated that they were believed. I guess those marketing campaigns need to change.
There are a ton of issues with higher education. The OP’s argument, channeling WFB jr. in the 1960s, that admissions to elite NE private schools should return to some type of NE legacy birthright isn’t one of them.
@Zinhead
“Many people on this board are employed by universities or have otherwise benefited from the current system, and any suggestion to change it will be met by “don’t move my cheese” accusations or worse.”
The VAST MAJORITY of people on this site are NOT employed by universities. This comment is either a whopper of an exaggeration or simply an alternative fact.