<p>Actually, I do not attend Catholic Church any more for that very reason. And there are many others like me.</p>
<p>I’d love to see that empty stadium.</p>
<p>“Sorry for abbreviation. Penn state.”</p>
<p>Normally it wouldn’t be a problem, but in this instance there is another school called Penn that probably wants to stay as far away as possible from this mess.</p>
<p>“Urging Penn State students to show their TRUE colors about the scandal”</p>
<p>I worry that they already did show their true colors, and it wasn’t pretty.</p>
<p>Neonzeus, you are a lawyer and of course you see this episode through that lens. It seems at this point that JoePa is not in legal jeopardy. He followed the law and university procedure. No one disagrees.</p>
<p>But do you understand that many people feel that this case demanded that Paterno et al do MORE than was legally required? Much much more, whatever it took to stop this monster. There was nothing at all to prevent JoePa from calling law enforcement himself, when he saw that his superiors weren’t going to act. “I followed the rules” works as a legal defense, but it falls far short as a moral defense.</p>
<p>Neonzeus: I am a civil defense attorney, and I understand completely what you are saying. I can see something like that unfolding as you have suggested and definitely respect voices for calm and not “rushing to judgment.” For all of their problems, trials are preferable to lynchings, and I am repulsed by media frenzies over trials that try to predict their outcome and blame juries for “getting it wrong” when very few people really hear all of the evidence and no one else hears the deliberations.</p>
<p>I hope that I, or my now college age children, would have intervened if any us witnessed what McQueary did. Over a decade ago, I was a whistleblower for a much less significant issue, and was burned for it. Part of the calculus for a whistleblower is what do you personally stand to lose if you do take a stand. I try to tell my kids that there are some things one should take a stand for even at great personal risk, and those things usually involve great injustices - and a man raping a ten year old would certainly qualify. I have no problem saying how we would hope to act in a similar situation, but it seems like hubris to say how one would act. How does anyone know how they might have reacted on beaches of Normandy unless they were there? </p>
<p>When the Rodney King beating was broken down blow by blow, you could justify each strike by King’s non-compliance and continued movement, which is how the defense won the criminal trial. However, in the aggregate, there was no true justification for that many baton blows to to an injured man surrounded by 17 (or so) officers. </p>
<p>You may be right that Joe Paterno might be able to justify each step he took based on procedures and policies of the University. However, stepping back and looking at the big picture, it seems that reliance on policies that could lead to such continuing injustices, when one is in a position of power and influence and could insist on getting to the bottom of the issue, is itself a failure of personal responsibility. You do, however, make a good case and reasonable minds can differ.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>No, but by “the reasoning stated somewhere upthread,” congregants probably shouldn’t attend a certain Catholic church the Sunday after their pastor is discovered to have been molesting the altar boys.</p>
<p>The suggestion isn’t that ALL football games EVERYWHERE should not be attended EVER again, but that at this particular school, this weekend’s game should not be attended.</p>
<p>I actually admire people who do not attend Catholic church anymore for that reason. Talk about unbridled institutional corruption… And it should be of all Catholic churches. The corruption was from the top down. And yes I know what people mean wrt to talking specifically about PSU’s game this weekend against Nebraska.</p>
<p>But I admit I am torn about the PSU students. In many ways they ARE kids. And PSU is their world (unnatural, but that is how college can be). I do feel bad for them. But unthinking support for Joe Paterno or the football program is hard to defend right now.</p>
<p>Since you two are lawyers, could you please clarify for me whether under PA statutes Paterno was legally mandated to report the suspicion of child abuse here??</p>
<p>
Those “Not Penn State” shirts sure are gonna take on a new meaning after this…</p>
<p>Good question, but I am not a lawyer in PA. While I could look up the statute, surely there is a PA lawyer around to address the question. In California, teachers are mandated reporters and while I have never researched the question, I strongly suspect athletic coaches are too. However, do those rules apply to college professors and coaches where you do not expect to find many children? I don’t know and am presently too tired to research it.</p>
<p>B- Thwre are minors on campus: summer camps, freshman… Discussed in other threads. The statute looks clear to me, but I am not a lawyer.</p>
<p>I am quoting what another poster put on the Joe Paterno thread:</p>
<p>"Pennsylvania law regarding mandatory reporting:</p>
<p>Persons required to report include, but are not limited to:</p>
<ul>
<li>Licensed physicians, osteopaths, medical examiners, coroners, funeral directors, dentists, optometrists, chiropractors, podiatrists, interns, nurses, or hospital personnel</li>
<li>Christian Science practitioners or members of the clergy</li>
<li>School administrators, teachers, school nurses, social services workers, daycare center workers, or any other child care or foster care workers</li>
<li>Mental health professionals</li>
<li>Peace officers or law enforcement officials</li>
</ul>
<p>Reporting by Other Persons
Citation: Cons. Stat. Tit. 23, § 6312</p>
<p>Any person who has reason to suspect that a child is abused or neglected may report.</p>
<p>Standards for Making a Report
Citation: Cons. Stat. Tit. 23, § 6311</p>
<p>A report is required when a person, who in the course of employment, occupation, or practice of a profession, comes into contact with children, has reasonable cause to suspect, on the basis of medical, professional, or other training and experience, that a child is a victim of child abuse."</p>
<p>From Neonzeus:
McQueary reported the event to Paterno THE NEXT DAY. Paterno took the information to his superiors (and I use that term with an eyeroll, as everyone knows Paterno functionally had no superiors) THE DAY AFTER THAT. No one did anything “as soon as possible”. These were the actions of men who, rather than trying to protect children from a pedophile in their midst, were trying to figure out how to manage a pesky problem that might taint the be-all and end-all of Penn State–football.</p>
<p>And this is a quote from jhs, another lawyer:</p>
<p>The text you posted comes from a revised version of the PA mandated reporter law. The statutory language in 2002 was a little bit different, in relevant ways:</p>
<p>Quote:
A person who, in the course of their employment, occupation or practice of their profession, come into contact with children shall report or cause a report to be made to the Department of Public Welfare when they have reasonable cause to suspect on the basis of their professional or other training or experience, that a child coming before them in their professional or official capacity is a victim of child abuse.
The current version is a little bit broader:</p>
<p>Quote:
A person who, in the course of their employment, occupation or practice of a profession, comes into contact with children shall report or cause a report to be made in accordance with section 6313 when the person has reasonable cause to suspect, on the basis of their medical, professional or other training and experience, that a child under the care, supervision, guidance or training of that person or of an agency, institution, organization or other entity with which that person is affiliated is a victim of child abuse, including child abuse by an individual who is not a perpetrator, shall report or cause a report to be made in accordance with section 6313.</p>
<p>performersmom, Joe’s lawyer will argue that since his job (college football coach) did not bring him into contact to children, he’s not a mandated reporter.</p>
<p>In some states, everyone is a mandated reporter, and I’d bet that Pennsylvania is going to add itself to that list really really soon.</p>
<p>LasMa,
But what was his legal obligation to report that he heard that a CHILD was taking a shower with (being sexually abused by an adult) (whom Joe may/probably/should have known was a pedophile) in his locker room one night. (Both people were trespassing, btw.)
Even with the parenthetical stuff removed, it seems rather inappropriate… on his property.</p>
<p>I am really not convinced that JoePa did NOT break the Law, too (by not reporting this to the police.) But I am waiting for real lawyers to help me understand this- smile.</p>
<p>Were the campus police also legally required to report suspicions of child abuse?</p>
<p>If there was one football player, one recruit, one trying out under the age of 18, wouldn’t that be enough to require being mandated to report</p>
<p>I would also guess if camps for minor children where run at Penn state, campers, or second mile program was on sight, then all the coaches would be mandated reporters</p>
<p>I
Also while most college students are adults, there are some that are legally minors, so my guess would be that any campus employee would be mandated reporters as there are indeed minors on campus and using the facilities</p>
<p>performersmom, as unbelievable as it seems, neither McQueary nor Paterno was legally obligated to report it to law enforcement. Their only legal duty was to tell their superiors. That’s how PA law is currently written. There’s already a state legislator who wants to propose tougher rules, and I bet he won’t run into much resistance.</p>
<p>Seahorsesrock, that’s a good question about recruits and players who are minors. As for the camps run by Sandusky and his Second Milers, maybe the loophole which will be exploited is that those weren’t official Penn State programs. Mandated reporting laws seem to be murky, and obviously aren’t taken very seriously.</p>
<p>Penn state runs a youth football camp, there is even a letter on the website signed by joe Yes it was for high school players, but they would be minors.</p>
<p>It would seem to me anyone running a program for minor children would be mandated reporters. The camp has been in existence for 36 years, and so it was in place in 1998 and 2002. As paterno was part of this camp, working with minor children, he would thus be a mandated reporter.</p>
<p>I am sorry, but didn’t any of you bother to follow the Strauss Cohen debacle? Allegations are allegations. Period. Sometimes they are true. Are any of you undeniable in full possession of all the facts? I thought not. If these events occurred, this was very sad event. If he knew about these events in any detail, then he shares moral, if not legal blame. But the legal system exists for a reason so people are not hung before they defend themselves. It may be Paterno’s turn today, but it may be your turn tomorrow.</p>
<p>trackpop, even Saint Joe himself says that it happened – “We should have done more.” Implicit in that statement is both acknowledgement of the rape, and acknowledgement that he did *something<a href=“i.e.,%20told%20his%20superiors”>/i</a>. So you can forget the defense that “we don’t know if it’s true.” </p>
<p>And Paterno is not in legal trouble (regrettably), so the standards of the legal system don’t apply. Presumption of innocence and burden of proof are required when someone is in danger of losing their liberty; and Joe isn’t facing that. Therefore, his callous disregard for the welfare of children is highly relevant.</p>