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<p>Most CC students are taking courses for associates degrees, certificates, personal interest, etc. (i.e. not intending to transfer to a four year school to complete a bachelor’s degree), which skews those stats.</p>
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<p>Recommend adding some of the less impacted CSUs that offer his desired engineering major, if starting at CC really is undesirable. He may get a boost at the local CSU as well.</p>
<p>To be realistic, Penn State give lousy financial aid to Pennsylvania residents. Its price will be higher and financial aid worse for a non-Pennsylvania resident. Run the net price calculator to see what kind of price you are looking at there any at all of the other schools.</p>
<p>Thanks ucbalumnus. I have been considering (CSUDH grad at 33 from West LA while working and raising kids including this one). Hoping for a little better, but not knocking at all.</p>
<p>OP- I am a URM with a senior at Ohio State and a current h.s. senior applying to college for mech. Engineering and we live in California. I am all for “going for it” but strongly believe a student should have no more than 3 of those kind of schools where the student doesn’t even fall in the lower 25% of the admitted pool like your son. Completing applications can be difficult for some students so efforts should first be directed at the “realistic” schools. It is better to have quality in an application directed at a school you son has a chance at getting accepted to. I know you are excited about his SAT but grades and rigor of course work are a bigger part of the picture. Trust me I studied a lot of admission data especially for the URM students since my own child is one and I volunteer to help my senior’s friends too. Last year there was a parent on CC who had the same attitude with no realistic affordable safeties on the student’s list. He didn’t get into any school- we don’t want the same result for your child. </p>
<p>Here is my take for what it is worth:</p>
<p>UC’s-this past year the UC’s basically took more out of state students proportionally than in-state students. Everyone in our community was shocked when students with at least a 4.0 and sat over 2000 were turned down by the UC’s. The engineering students fared worse because engineering is impacted at most UC’s. For example there were over 1K applicants for the 68 mechanical engineering spots at UCSB. So I don’t think he has chance for SB or SC and a slim chance at UCR. Also engineering is very limited at SC so make sure the few types they offer are something he wants to study. Further be prepared that the UC’s may only accepted him for a lesser choice major and not something he wants to study. Merced is his best chance for being accepted to a UC. Just as a tip be sure to complete the UC app by Nov. 21 because the system crashes a lot right before the deadline. </p>
<p>Just because a student is UC eligible doesn’t mean they will get accepted. Look up the admission data on a website like collegedata.com and you will see not big numbers of acceptance for his stats. Another thing to look at is the admission profile for this past year. Plus it is harder for a student with a low gpa and a lot of financial need to get accepted so you have to consider that fact. In April I met some URMs who got into Cal but they had high gpas and low SAT’s and they were all studying engineering. They had very compelling stories; had started engineering outreach programs at their high schools and other incredible EC’s. Like your son they had a very low freshmen gpa (around 1.5) but got the wake up call and had gpas over 4.0 in their last two years of high schools. There may have been upward bound programs that helped them but you will have to look into that kind of program. </p>
<p>SDSU & SLO-no chance at all for those schools. Those schools do not really look at the applicant holistically. It is all numbers unless your son is part of a compact for those schools. (A compact is an agreement a high school has with the Cal-State to accept their students with lower gpas/sats). </p>
<p>SDSU- avg gpa 3.76- higher for engineering because it is impacted. Most of my DD’s friends who got in had same SAT and at gpa of at least 3.8. Plus this year students were limited to no more than 13 units so you are looking at least 5 years to graduate and you don’t get more than 4 years of fin. Aid. </p>
<p>SLO-avg gpa 3.87- higher for engineering. Only 3% of students were accepted with your son’s gpa. You also have to remember that these numbers may include athletes who perhaps do not have the same grades as the avg gpa. To have any chance your son has to apply ED which is binding and I wouldn’t do that. Again I know a lot of engineering students including many first generation students with higher grades and same SAT who did not get into either slo or sdsu. Plus fin. Aid is terrible at SLO- they only met 56% of need. Be sure to always look at that number. Just because a college offers financial aid doesn’t mean that they are going to give you the full amount. </p>
<p>Penn State- This college has the famous bubble chart to give a student an accurate estimate of their chances. You son would not get accepted to their main campus in College Station and instead would only have a possibility at a satellite campus. Here is the chart. <a href=“http://admissions.psu.edu/info/counselors/bubble_chart.pdf[/url]”>http://admissions.psu.edu/info/counselors/bubble_chart.pdf</a> Like others have mentioned Penn State is not very generous so you are not going to get enough financial aid to attend. </p>
<p>Washington State. Your son will have a hard time qualifying for WUE at Washington State which only goes to the top students and is based on unweighted gpa. To qualify with a 2.5 your son has to have at least a 1400 on the cr & M sections and then it would be the lowest level of WUE and tuition would still be at least $17k a year. Here is the scholarship calculator so run his numbers [Cougar</a> Academic Scholarship - Admissions - Washington State University](<a href=“http://admission.wsu.edu/scholarships/cougar-academic.html?p27=http://admission.wsu.edu/calculators/outofstatevalidate.aspx]Cougar”>http://admission.wsu.edu/scholarships/cougar-academic.html?p27=http://admission.wsu.edu/calculators/outofstatevalidate.aspx)</p>
<p>Cornell, Rice, Notre Dame, USC- no chance at all unless there is a bridge program and your son is already in it. My son had much better grades than your son and close to the same SAT and he did not get in at USC and he was a legacy and not studying engineering. You have to remember that your son is competing against other URM’s and he is male. I know a lot of URMs who are male who want to study engineering and they have much better stats than your son. My children participate in lots of outreach programs so I have a basis for my statements. Also you did not specify which URM you are and that is a factor in admission too. </p>
<p>Now that I have been a downer let me give you some good information because I want URM’s to go to college including your son. </p>
<p>I think your son will be first generation so look at the website [I’m</a> First | College is my opportunity](<a href=“http://www.imfirst.org%5DI’m”>http://www.imfirst.org) This website is wonderful and devoted to urms and first gen students. Colleges become partner colleges who are actively looking for first gen students so look up those schools. See if there is any bridge type program or guarantee transfer that may work for your son. As others have mentioned if he has a compelling reason for his low grades then be sure to share it. Contact those partner colleges. This website also has a listing of organizations who can help URMs apply to college and I believe there are some in your area. Go look them up and ask for their help. </p>
<p>Second look at <a href=“http://www.getmetocollege.org-%5B/url%5D”>www.getmetocollege.org-</a> this too is a wonderful website for URMs especially those from California. Look at the college listings. Read everything on that website.</p>
<p>Third- read the book “The College Solution” and the website that goes by the same name. The advice in that book for finding the most generous colleges with financial aid is excellent. Tools like <a href=“http://www.collegedata%5B/url%5D”>www.collegedata</a> or collegenavigator will be very helpful in seeing the percentage of need met and the rate of indebtness of a student as well as graduation rates. </p>
<p>Two other good engineering websites are <a href=“http://www.collegemajors.101%5B/url%5D”>www.collegemajors.101</a> and the American Society of The Engineering Education at [College</a> Profiles: American Society for Engineering Education](<a href=“Page not found”>College Profiles) Look at the college profiles and you can see exactly how many URMs for each engineering major are accepted and it will give you a better picture. </p>
<p>You need to have more realistic choices for your son on his list. Unfortunately his grades do not put him in the running at the full need met schools with engineering in California. One outside shot for him may be to apply to the University of San Diego. His grades are low but they just opened up a new engineering school and they are actively out looking for students to fill it. As far as engineering I suggest the University of the Pacific or Chico State. LMU and Santa Clara are not going to give you enough aid. I caution you to look closely at the grad rates for the Cal-States which are under 30% with the exception of Sonoma and SDSU. One thought is to have your son look at 3.2 programs. </p>
<p>Also look at private colleges outside of California like the colleges that change lives group. They would appreciate a student like your son. Although Miami of Ohio is a public school; they have a great bridge program for engineering and you could still apply for the diversity fly-in. use the search function on collegenavigator or collegedata to find more realistic schools. </p>
<p>Here on CC there are two forums for URMs that are listed under “specialty college admission. I recommend you post over there for more advice. One thing your son does have going for him is you. Having a supportive parent who is willing to do the research will go a long way. Also be sure to apply early action if you can. You get better admission results and more scholarships. Good luck I would be nervous if my child had only those schools on her list. New Mexico is generous and has an easy application. The rep Gary… always gives out fee waivers.</p>
<p>Also you stated “If none of the “12” we will look at rolling admission schools, but definitely 4 yr schools. We’re not rich… probably not even middle class, but…”. The problem with this plan is that for many of the schools on his list they will not notify you until late March and the 1st of April. Most financial aid deadlines around Feb. 1 so you will miss those deadlines. Plus money gets handed out in order of who applies. Those that apply late in rolling get the smallest awards.</p>
<p>At USC, if you want aid, you have to apply by Dec 1 and don’t get an admission decision until 4/1 or so and FAid even later. They turned away several NMFs with much better grades and scores than your S. </p>
<p>Please pick at least one or two schools for your S that are affordable per the net price calculator and his grades AND scores place him in the 75% of kids admitted if you and he don’t want him to end up at a CC because he is rejected and/or can’t afford the Us. </p>
<p>Sadly it happens way too often that there is no school likely to accept student AND family can afford on the list of Us being applied to. Kids that are rejected or can’t afford the Us accepting them end up having to scramble at the last minute, after much of the university’s FAid has already been awarded to other students, attend CC or take a gap year and try again.</p>
<p>Another option might be to look at the dual degree programs offered at a number of the liberal arts colleges in the Pacific Northwest. These schools are eager to improve the diversity of their student bodies (as well as increasing the percentage of males on campus), and may offer solid financial aid in service to that goal. Your son may even be offered an opportunity to fly in to visit these schools (I know several students for whom that was the case). Schools to consider include Reed, Puget Sound, Whitman, and Willamette, among others.</p>
<p>One serious downside is that your son would not be guaranteed an engineering degree. He would have to perform well in the prescribed three years of course work in order to gain admission to the engineering program. That said, this sort of requirement might be exactly what he needs to get him to step up his game. Additionally, the smaller classes at these schools make it more likely that professors will notice when he is slacking. Another important downside is that it would take him five years to finish his degree. Of course that’s probably true for most California public universities as well.</p>
<p>On the plus side, he is more likely to be admitted to these schools than he is to competitive UCs and CSUs, where admissions are heavily GPA driven, and where consideration of race in admissions is against the law. Additionally, if he does get his act together and earn admission to the affiliated engineering program, it will be at a much better known/more prestigious school than the ones to which he is likely to earn admission now (these schools work with engineering programs at Caltech, Columbia, USC, Wash U., etc.).</p>
<p>So far as his CSU/UC options are concerned, he should probably focus on Cal Poly Pomona, though even that is not guaranteed. Riverside is a possibility, but totally numbers driven. UCSC uses holistic rating, so it may be a better bet if he has any special circumstances/hardships that could explain his lower grades. You’ll want to be certain that he addresses them in his essays in order to improve his odds. UC Merced should be a sure thing. The campus is lovely, but there is no getting around the less than perfect location.</p>
<p>Willamette is generous for merit and FAid, I’ve been told but am not sure about their program leading to an engineering degree. Not all kids are willing to leave their U after 3 years and they won’t find out if they have genuine aptitude and ability for engineering until after JR year!</p>
<p>Many schools that meet 100% need are not need blind but need aware.
Are you anticipating getting fee waivers for apps?
Those are not unlimited and the fees add up quickly.
Both my daughters together only applied to 7 schools because we couldn’t afford the fees.
However, because we had a focused approach and they were able to write essays that believably spoke about their school preferences, they were admitted to all the schools.
( albeit with better numbers than your sons)</p>
<p>Just wanted to mention that UCSC has terrific programs for engineers interested in biology. It is world class in Bioinformatics — everybody in the world is using the UCSC Genome Browser in biomedical research. The molecular biology and computer science/computer engineering programs work closely together.</p>
<p>However avg GPA for admitted students is 3.86.
[Fall</a> 2013 freshman class at UC Santa Cruz is one of the most selective - UC Santa Cruz](<a href=“http://news.ucsc.edu/2013/04/admits-fall13.html]Fall”>Fall 2013 freshman class at UC Santa Cruz is one of the most selective)</p>
<p>We’re not rich… probably not even middle class</p>
<p>???</p>
<p>Then why the OOS publics? Even if he got into Wash State with tuition exchance, won’t the cost be about $30k per year. How would you pay for that?</p>
<p>Since you threw affirmative action on the table…I think you grossly misunderstand how colleges like Cornell, Rice ect. utilize aa. Go to the African American acceptances threads. Students are not being admitted into colleges of that caliber with 2.5 GPAs.</p>
<p>What is his GPA after freshman year? Schools that do holistic admissions can choose to pretty much ignore freshman year, some like Stanford, say they don’t consider freshman grades at all. I’m more optimistic than some others here, if he’s African-American or Mexican American a 700 score puts him in the top 1% of test takers. </p>
<p>[url=<a href=“http://research.collegeboard.org/content/sat-data-tables]SAT”>http://research.collegeboard.org/content/sat-data-tables]SAT</a> Data Tables | Research and Development<a href=“scroll%20down%20for%20link%20to%20minority%20data”>/url</a></p>
<p>Please make sure you have a safety you can afford and your S would be happy to attend. After that, as long as you’re being realistic with your son as to what you can afford (i.e. Penn State) then apply away.</p>
<p>I am not an admission officer, but I would bet high test scores probably make low GPA look worse.</p>
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<p>Depends on the reason. If it’s due to slacking or not having much interest in academics throughout HS, yes.</p>
<p>If it’s due to other factors such as attending an academically rigorous high school or adjustment issues early in one’s HS career which were subsequently overcome with an upward trend in grades, not necessarily as some adcoms are willing to give the applicant the benefit of the doubt. Especially if the applicant wrote a compelling essay and has compelling LORs from teachers and GC explaining the underlying situation. </p>
<p>Granted, there are no guarantees. Also, getting admitted will mean such a successful applicant will need to double down on the intelligently applied work ethic & be proactive in avoiding and working around issues* which caused him/her to hit the academic wall earlier in HS. </p>
<p>On this, I speak from firsthand experience. :)</p>
<p>*I.e. Proactively take advantage of Prof/TA office hours and get tutoring at the very first sign of confusion/struggling with course material. Preferably well before midterms/finals week.</p>
<p>Just want to mention something that hasn’t been mentioned here. You have mentioned that you talked your son out of doing premed. Engineering in my opinion is A LOT more difficult major then premed. I’m speaking from experience. I was an engineering major. Granted, it was 25 years ago. But I doubt math and science changed that much or got any easier. I was really good in math and science. You have to take almost all math and science there is. Engineers need a lot more credits so going in without AP credits can really hurt you. You end up taking too many classes. The difficulty is through the roof. I graduated in 4 years with a 3.5 GPA which apparently is good for engineering. But all my friends kids that are going to engineering now tell me that it’s usually a 5 year graduation now because of all the extra courses. I don’t know how much better your sons grades got after freshman year but freshman year of engineering is a 1000 times worst.
If he’s good in math may I suggest ComputerScience major. A lot easier and great job prospects as well. All my friends that were doing Computer Science had a great time in college while I was up till all hours of the night doing HW. And they all ended up with better jobs and are making really good money now.</p>
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<p>This varies by the college. If the CS major is offered through the engineering school/division with same/similar academic requirements, it can be just as difficult as an engineering major. </p>
<p>Moreover, I noticed similar weed-out rates of aspiring CS majors at many other colleges due to inadequate STEM preparation and to a lesser extent, in the first two intro CS courses I took at my own college.</p>
<p>*
We’re going for it…</p>
<p>…we only have one shot, so why not. We are from California so we have the UC’s (son’s gpa is 3.2 UC weighted so he qualifies) and the CSU’s are our lowest possibility. Here is our list. Far more reaches than safeties or matches but*</p>
<p>What is with all of this “we” stuff? Who is going to college? Are you two going as a duo? </p>
<p>"he used to think that he wanted to be a doctor. I steered him away from that…"</p>
<p>While your son’s GPA doesn’t bode well, there are a number of kids (especially males) who get their acts together in college. </p>
<p>Eng’g has a good number of similar pre-reqs as premeds, so he could legitimately do both routes and see what shakes out.</p>
<p>realistic, Penn State give lousy financial aid to Pennsylvania residents. Its price will be higher and financial aid worse for a non-Pennsylvania resident. Run the net price calculator to see what kind of price you are looking at there any at all of the other schools</p>
<p>Neither PSU or Wash St will give much/any aid. Even with WUE for WashSt, the cost would be over $30k per year with very little aid. Why apply there?</p>