<p>bumpppppppppppppp</p>
<p>well i think that, by saying that AA should be abolished, you ARE saying that diversity isn't important. AA, whether you like it or not, does diversify college campuses.</p>
<p>in a very superficial way.</p>
<p>"in a very superficial way."</p>
<p>...what are you TALKING about?</p>
<p>But, diversify for good or for ill? That's the question, and if the answer is for worse, then what I am calling for is reform of the process and standard by which universities would go about enacting affirmative action. If the system itself is so out of line and beyond reform, then new ideas need to be sought. And when I say abolish it, I am saying get rid of it to put in its place an entirely NEW system to do the job afirmative action was meant to do, which is help out people who really need the help. I just dont want people abusing it anymore i.e. some girl at my school who calls herself American Indian on applications just to help herself when she is as Cherokee as I am Nigerian (and I am as white and German as they come).</p>
<p>A lot of you are missing the point. Yale gets about 20,000 applicants. The class is about 1500 students. Of those students only 150 are black. Of those 150, let's say 80 got in because of AA. If you allow 80 more students from that original 20,000, a white kid's chance of getting in is increrased by less than a percentage point! And it probably would get taken by an Asian student anyway. The fact is that those 80 students are going to make that big of a difference in your acceptance decision in the first place. If Yale wants you, then Yale will accept you. Stop using AA for an excuse to blame someone else for your rejection!</p>
<p>I'm a black student and I work really hard, probably harder than some of the white kids who apply to the same schools with higher scores than mine. I know I can add much more to a campus than some kid who studies nonstop and has a 1600 SAT.</p>
<p>What I meant by superficial is that, if a black and white student that grew up in an upper-class neighborhood and had exactly the same ECs, scores etc. both applied to an ivy, the black student would get in. What diversity does he add? Sure the campus is more color-diverse, but is that really diversity?</p>
<p>sirwonkalus:
if you can add more just by being black... then that's not much at all is it?</p>
<p>If you can add more because of your ECs etc. then you probably should be able to get in without AA.</p>
<p>"and it probably would get taken by an Asian student anyway"<br>
sorry but aa aside, that's rude in any context.</p>
<p>Also, sirwonkalus... you can't justified a flawed system by saying that the "backdoors" are little. A flawed system has to have just one flaw to make it flawed.</p>
<p>And please explain your last statement.</p>
<p>1.A lot of you are missing the point. Yale gets about 20,000 applicants. The class is about 1500 students. Of those students only 150 are black. Of those 150, let's say 80 got in because of AA. If you allow 80 more students from that original 20,000, a white kid's chance of getting in is increased by less than a percentage point!</p>
<p>2.The dramatics of your statement are ridiculous way of using emotion. It hurts your credibility beyond the fact that it is a ludicrous image, a white kid suffering because a non-white kid got in.</p>
<p>What I meant by superficial is that, if a black and white student that grew up in an upper-class neighborhood and had exactly the same ECs, scores etc. both applied to an ivy, the black student would get in. What diversity does he add? Sure the campus is more color-diverse, but is that really diversity?</p>
<p>You cant argue that there is no inherent diversity, no different experience between living as a black person and a white person, regardless of socioeconomic status. Disregarding what those different experiences are, they are still very different, and diverse.</p>
<p>if you can add more just by being black... then that's not much at all is it?</p>
<p>I know you dont mean this the way it sounds.</p>
<p>bumpppppppppp</p>
<p>haos: I don't know what you're talking about because the fact remains that if you take away AA then more Asians will get in! If race isn't on the application, every race will get accepted at a lower rate except for Asian Americans. How is that offensive?</p>
<p>David: I recently attended a Diversity conference at a New England school and was convinced that in order to achieve the best learning experience, students should have diversity. I learned more from the diverse group of people at that single three-day program than I could in a single semester of a class at my school. Colleges realize this even if you don't. That is why it is important to get a large mixture of people.</p>
<p>Also, no one can add more just by a skin color, but because of his skin color someone will have different life experiences than someone of a different race. Regardless of socioeconomic status. Black kids in the suburbs have different views from white kids in the suburbs. And that's a generalization, I'm sure, but it's pretty much true. I have different views than a lot of the white, Asian, Hispanic kids that I know in the same neighborhood.</p>
<p>Sirwon: Actually, the increase is about 1.5% overall if affirmative action was abolished. And if the effect is so small (i love how you pulled 80) out of thin air, then AA doesn't work that well and we should go with what is morally fair.</p>
<p>Sirwon: perhaps you should check out this site in re: your "response" to davidrune <a href="http://www.intrepidsoftware.com/fallacy/toc.php%5B/url%5D">http://www.intrepidsoftware.com/fallacy/toc.php</a></p>
<p>"If Yale wants you, then Yale will accept you. Stop using AA for an excuse to blame someone else for your rejection!"</p>
<p>THANKYOU!!!!!!!!!After all, the majority at these schools IS caucasian.</p>
<p>sirw- so you don't think there's something inherently discriminatory in using race as a factor for admission to the extreme where, according to your own words, Asians are being held to a higher overall standard?</p>
<p>I agree with davidrune...if you can add more to a campus merely by how dark or light your skin is, then it's superficial.</p>
<p>Why do we argue soo much over a topic that will probably not be changed in the near future? Every page has atleast 1 thread about goddamn AA.</p>
<p>bumppppppppppp</p>
<p>bumpppppppppp</p>
<p>The thign about affirmative action is that it is. Why should I get punished for stuff that was going on when my ancestors were still in eastern europe? Isn't that racism, because I'm white its assumed I"ll put blacks down?</p>
<p>in response to sirw:</p>
<p>This just in! A new study has shown that not only black people can bring diversity to a campus. Apparently, although white people all look alike they each have different ethnicities. The scientist responsible for this study was shocked when he found out this out. He said: "Apparently, there are french, spanish, italian, jewish... and a multitude of ethinicities within the white population. I for one was shocked."</p>