Seems like knowledge and desirability of these schools is significantly affected by regional considerations.
What your seeing on the public side is the affect of demographics. The more population (paying in state tuition), the more quality these universities have to choose from. You should see a rise in rankings in the warmer states universities over time as population shifts south and west.
Sometimes, the challenges resulting in non graduation or delayed graduation are financial rather than academic.
“I’m just not sure how to reconcile some of the shake-ups in the 30-40 range. I don’t know anyone who would say that UCSB is better than BC, or even Rochester, BU, and Brandeis. It seems comical that the University of Florida would be ranked ahead of BC or UCSD above BU.”
There are 21 million people in Florida and almost 40 million in California and not all of us can afford private schools. UCSD coming in around 4th - 6th on the west coast is about accurate and would put it in line with something like Brown or Dartmouth if you just look at popularity by location (CA vs New England). Of course there are many other factors to consider and it doesn’t have the endowment, etc but your post definitely comes from the New England point of view where all of the smart kids go to private school, which isn’t true in most of the US.
The top 1000 students at the University of Florida are quite a lot smarter as a group than the top 1000 at BC, Rochester, Brandeis or BU. That’s just the way it is - the math makes it so (in addition to all the merit scholarships available for top students at UF). Believe it.
The WSJ rankings will never be popular or a factor if they continue behind a pay wall (or am I missing something?).
Let’s focus on USNews rankings in this thread.
ayyye, let’s go GC. #18 to #11… i’ll take it.
(p.s. i’m very glad they included the social mobility category and excluded the acceptance rate category. one matters dearly, the other… not so much.)
@suzyQ7 : WSJ rankings is at https://www.timeshighereducation.com/rankings/united-states/2018#!/page/0/length/25/sort_by/rank/sort_order/asc/cols/stats
It can be found by a simple google search.
To let those WSJ subscribers feel they get their money’s worth, I think they delay the general public release on the web for a while. WSJ Online has never been free.
@suzyQ7 : For now, if you just need to know the ranking for a specific school, use this backdoor link https://www.wsj.com/graphics/college-rankings-2018-tool/embed/ and type the school name.
No login needed.
Here’s the undergrad business rankings:
Rank, School, Score, Change
1 University of Pennsylvania (Wharton) 4.8 *
2 Massachusetts Institute of Technology (Sloan) 4.6 *
2 University of California–Berkeley (Haas)* 4.6 1
4 University of Michigan–Ann Arbor (Ross)* 4.5 -1
5 New York University (Stern) 4.4 *
6 Carnegie Mellon University (Tepper) ¶ 4.3 1
6 University of Texas–Austin (McCombs)* 4.3 -1
8 U. of North Carolina–Chapel Hill (Kenan-Flagler)* 4.2 -1
8 University of Virginia (McIntire)* 4.2 -1
10 Cornell University (Dyson) (NY) 4.1 -3
10 Indiana University–Bloomington (Kelley)* 4.1 1
10 University of Notre Dame (Mendoza) (IN) 4.1 1
10 University of Southern California (Marshall) 4.1 1
14 Washington University in St. Louis (Olin) 4.0 *
15 Emory University (Goizueta) (GA) 3.9 *
15 Georgetown University (McDonough) (DC) 3.9 *
15 Ohio State University–Columbus (Fisher)* 3.9 *
18 Univ. of Wisconsin–Madison* 3.8 -3
18 University of Illinois–Urbana-Champaign* 3.8 -3
18 University of Minnesota–Twin Cities (Carlson)* 3.8 -3
21 Boston College (Carroll) 3.7 3
21 Georgia Institute of Technology (Scheller)* 3.7 10
21 Michigan State University (Broad)* 3.7 3
21 Pennsylvania State U.–Univ. Park (Smeal)* 3.7 *
21 Purdue University–West Lafayette (Krannert) (IN)* 3.7 3
21 Univ. of Maryland–College Park* 3.7 *
21 University of Arizona (Eller)* 3.7 *
21 University of Georgia (Terry)* 3.7 3
21 University of Washington (Foster)* 3.7 3
30 Arizona State University–Tempe (Carey)* 3.6 -6
30 Babson College (MA) 3.6 1
30 Johns Hopkins University (MD) 3.6 N/A
30 Texas A&M University–College Station (Mays)* 3.6 1
30 University of Florida (Warrington)* 3.6 -6
35 Brigham Young Univ.–Provo (Marriott) (UT) 3.5 -4
35 Case Western Reserve Univ. (Weatherhead) (OH) 3.5 -4
35 University of California–Irvine (Merage)* 3.5 -4
35 University of Colorado–Boulder (Leeds)* 3.5 -4
35 University of Iowa (Tippie)* 3.5 -4
35 University of Pittsburgh* 3.5 -4
35 Wake Forest University (NC) 3.5 5
42 Boston University 3.4 -2
42 George Washington University (DC) 3.4 *
44 College of William & Mary (Mason) (VA)* 3.3 -2
44 Florida State University* 3.3 1
44 Georgia State University (Robinson)* 3.3 20 (biggest jump)
44 Pepperdine University (CA) 3.3 1
44 Southern Methodist University (Cox) (TX) 3.3 1
44 Syracuse University (Whitman) (NY) 3.3 -3
44 Tulane University (Freeman) (LA) 3.3 1
44 United States Air Force Academy (CO)* 3.3 1
44 Univ. of Massachusetts–Amherst (Isenberg)* 3.3 1
44 Univ. of Nebraska–Lincoln* 3.3 1
44 Univ. of South Carolina (Moore)* 3.3 1
44 University of Alabama (Culverhouse)* 3.3 1
44 University of Arkansas (Walton)* 3.3 1
44 University of California–San Diego (Rady)* 3.3 1
44 University of Oregon (Lundquist)* 3.3 20 (biggest jump)
44 University of Utah (Eccles)* 3.3 1
44 Villanova University ¶ 3.3 1
44 Virginia Tech (Pamplin)* 3.3 1
@SatchelSF Provide actual statistics to back up your argument. The GPAs and standardized test scores of incoming freshman at UF fall below all of those schools. The only reason UF rose in the rankings is because of a methodology change that literally favors the fact that entry to UF isn’t as competitive (along with the fact that a larger proportion of students aren’t wealthy).
@SatchelSF And on that note, regional excellence doesn’t translate into absolute excellence. Just because UCSB is 4-6 in the West (which isn’t the case because all of the Claremont schools would be considered better), doesn’t mean it has the same institutional quality as the equivalent 4-6 place institution in the east - that’s a pretty bogus argument.
@undergrad2018
I somewhat agree, The graduation of poor students is important for higher education and society, but on a surface level to say UF is on the same level as Gtech is silly, and no employer would agree.
@emorynavy I totally agree! I’m very happy with the incentives this new methodology provides. Socioeconomic diversity is crucial not just to accomplishing aggregate societal succsss but to enriching the academic experience. I know top tier private schools like BU, BC will start taking robust strides toward economic inclusivity; just last year it looks like BU increased its % of Pell Grant eligible students from 14.6 to 18.2.
@Greymeer I’m curious about the Peer Assessment Survey results as that’s a measure of how academic types rate other institutions and those survey results are not muddied by extraneous stuff like class sizes and alumni donations. I found the link to the HS Counselor Survey, but I can’t find the Peer Assessment scores online. Is there a link to those?
" just last year it looks like BU increased its % of Pell Grant eligible students from 14.6 to 18.2."
Perhaps colleges had knowledge that the methodology was going to change.
@Coloradomama I seems that MIT students may not have the ability to get an impressive liberal arts education, but they register for classes and with transportation to Harvard and Wellsley, have incredible science classes which would be in CAS at a large university and Sloan is the #2 undergraduate business school in the country. Also, with the caliper of students, I would not discount the courses in the SHASS faculty. Yes the student population is tech focused, but they intentionally accept multi-focused and talented students. Gone are the days when engineering and science leaders do not need to communicate effectively.
Which is low compared to that of UCSB at 36%, UCSD at 34%, or University of Florida at 26%.
BU’s net price calculator suggests a net price of $24,382 for a top-end (4.0/1600/36) student from a $30,000 per year income family. Unless it improves financial aid, it will be unattractive to students from lower income families. Even if they do attend, they may be more prone to dropping out due to running out of money.
Could this lead to some privates giving up need blind admission in order to more easily identify Pell-eligible applicants, shifting financial aid from those applicants above the Pell threshold? Or is there some easier way to identify who meets Pell?
Graduation rates are most heavily related to admission selectivity.
Of the other factors that influence graduation rates, they may include desirable, undesirable, and neutral factors. Or factors that some may see as desirable and others see as undesirable (e.g. how academically challenging is “just right”?)