Not to worry Knowsstuff. Michigan has never been the top ranked public school in the history of USNWR rankings. Furthermore, I believe Michigan Engineering has never been ranked higher then they are currently. You can keep your son in Ann Arbor; nothing has changed.
@Collegemom102 -
I think that the difference in rank between closely ranked top LACs is insignificant, and I agree that their similarities often outweigh their differences, although for certain students some may be a better fit than others.
That said, Williams is such a wonderful college. Small class sizes, close student-prof relationships, fantastic teaching, a warm campus community with a freshman entry system that ensures that students from all different backgrounds meet and get to know one another and that students are immediately part of a close community, great extracurricular activities from music to sports to clubs, and amazing surroundings with beautiful mountains! So far, our experience has been that the students are super-smart and intellectually curious, and also nice and kind, to such a degree that while there must be some students there who do not match that description, they are hard to find. It is a great environment for learning, all around.
It is nice that Williams gets recognized by so many ranking organizations as being one of the best college experiences available.
That said, a student who goes to Swarthmore or Haverford or Middlebury or Carleton or Vassar or Bates, etc., will have a similar experience in many ways, so a student’s choice should be made by fit more than by small and meaningless differences in rank.
Inside Higher Ed – The ‘U.S. News’ Rankings’ (Faux?) Embrace of Social Mobility (https://www.insidehighered.com/admissions/article/2018/09/10/us-news-says-it-has-shifted-rankings-focus-social-mobility-has-it)
USNWR Expert Opinion (20 percent, down from 22.5 percent in 2018)
peer assessment – Of the 4,589 academics who were sent questionnaires, 35.5 percent responded. This response rate is down from the 40.4 percent response rate in spring 2017 and the 39 percent response rate to the surveys conducted in spring 2016.
It looks like most “experts” have already ignored USNWR rankings. Obviously, we are not experts.
Sorry all but Michigan was ranked the number 1 public university for 3 years running… Glad you caught the tongue in cheek here.
At least it’s a real ranking!!
So anyway, back to the US News rankings, since that is the topic of this thread… ;
Best Engineering Schools Rankings (Graduate) uses a completely different methodology than the Specialty Rankings.
The Specialty rankings are based solely on peer assessments (survey) by department heads in each specialty area. They don’t take into account any other factors.
https://www.usnews.com/education/best-graduate-schools/articles/engineering-schools-methodology
Poets&Quants, which devotes all of its time to business schools, had this to say about the USNWR business school rankings:
Unlike Poets&Quants‘ ranking of undergraduate business programs, which factors in hard admissions and outcomes data with alumni surveys, the U.S. News list can be little more than a popularity contest. Critics say survey respondents often take out the year’s earlier ranking and fill out the survey based on earlier results and their own prejudices. That tends to keep the same schools at the top of the list. The only big change in the top 25 was Georgia Institute of Technology’s Scheller College of Business, which jumped 10 spots to tie for 21st place with eight, yes eight, other schools.
@Gator88NE thanks… yeah, I know the methodology.
But that is like telling Alabama that even though they won all their games, a .500 Oregon is the champion because they spent more money on their uniforms.
This is a great example of why you have to read the methodology of any ranking. The " Peer assessment score" for “Best Engineering Schools Rankings” is much more reliable than the one in the undergrad college ranking which now only has 35.5% response rate. 54% of those surveyed in 2017 responded to the engineering survey, which is very similar to voter turnout in the 2016 United States presidential elections: 55.5%. 35.5% undergrad survey turnout is way too low for statistical purpose. Those self-selected samples can be manipulated with a bit of effort.
According to Wiki,
GE got booted out of Dow Jones industrial average on June 26th of this year. GE was the last original members of DJIA (https://www.businessinsider.com/dow-original-companies-2016-12). Things change. U.S News rankings are the tail of the dog which has already died. Without competition, those rankings can continue. But with WSJ/THE got into this business, watch out for future development. Personally I think WSJ/THE is smart to replace Expert Opinion with student Engagement. It looks like quite a few smart kids on this site want to work for Wall Street firms. Those people in financial usually know what they are doing.
Trust your thinking, @Collegemom102. I can’t remember the last time I ever heard the term, “endowment per student” or even “spending per student” used as a way to cast light (or shade) on a national research university. Their pecking order is almost self-regulating to the extent that people have either heard of them or haven’t. No one argues about faculty/student ratios, class sizes (unless the comparison is to a LAC), or how good the food is. The same is not true for LACs which traditionally don’t have Division I sports teams, large teaching hospitals or medical and engineering and business schools with which to project their power and prestige. Hopefully, with the addition of the new social mobility indicia - which were a long time coming, IMO - the top LACs will continue to spend their money on things that matter.
Here is another ranking from THE which is harder to “manipulate” and with a few exceptions not a whole lot different than USNWR rankings:
https://www.timeshighereducation.com/news/top-10-universities-producing-nobel-prizewinners-2017
Looks like US News is trying to stamp out the donut hole kids entirely by eliminating the incentive to offer these kids merit scholarships. The idea seems to be to swap the classes around, not make sure all succeed. Without merit scholarships for high test scores and GPA, my son would have no shot at his college journey.
It is a huge joke to me.
It is myunderstanding that many of the rankings can include things that have nothing to do with quality of education. i.e new buildings and facilities
@nrtlax33 The NSSE site is interesting (especially the HIP and EI definitions defined here http://nsse.indiana.edu/pdf/EIs_and_HIPs_2015.pdf ).
I can’t find a way to see engagement by school though?
Oh wait, apparently the WSJ is using something else.
So @nrtlax33 what “US Student Survey” is WSJ rank using?
I don’t understand why Pell Grant can be counted into ranking criteria. Is this provided by university?
“Not to worry Knowsstuff. Michigan has never been the top ranked public school in the history of USNWR”
Ok, so I recalled UM being the top public school for a few years so I googled it and they actually were the top public three years:
95: UM 21, UCB 23
96: UM 24, UCB 26
97: UM 24, UCB 27
Now here’s one thing to note, UCB started pulling ahead of UM when they no could no longer consider race in admissions (97-98) In 99, UCB went to 22, UM to 25 and was the top public uni till this year. Michigan also could not consider race as of 2006.
With so many ties, including a 4-way tie for #3 and a total of 11 schools ending up ranked in the top 10, perhaps USNews is starting to concede that its methodology and perhaps college rankings in general do not have sufficient power of discrimination to accurately rank down to level of individual institutions. Which would call for a switch to ranking in tiers or in say blocks of ten: Top 10, second 10, third 10, etc.
It’s impossible to rank U Michigan as the No.1 public university. UCB and UCLA are both much better than this school.