<p>I'm a premed student who wants to major in Biomedical Engineering. I'm choosing between USC's Bacc/MD program, Yale, and Northwestern's HPME program. Here are the pros and cons that I can think of for each...</p>
<p>USC Bacc/MD:
guarantee progam
they have an Honors Engineering program that I could join
I would be allowed to do physician shadowing and clinical research
kind of a party environment
maybe not as well-respected as places like yale and northwestern</p>
<p>Yale:
90-95% acceptance rate into medical school
great classes and professors
I would have to worry about applying all over again to medical school and doing the same activities (i.e. research, clubs, etc...) to get in.</p>
<p>Northwestern:
guarantee program
the undergraduate campus is kinda far from the medical school so would be harder for me to do physician shadowing there
I've heard that the undergraduate and some medical professors are not so helpful, but Idk how much that's true...</p>
<p>i’m guessing you got at least half if not full tuition at USC? if so, def go there, u will have a lot of fun (and be in great weather) and u won’t have to worry abt applying to med school. if u didn’t get any scholarship money then take HPME. I wouldn’t go to yale unless u can’t see urself going anywhere else, cuz both USC and NW have awesome med schools and even if u work really hard at yale u might not even get into a med school of equal calibar. not to mention it will be the most expensive of the three options.</p>
<p>“90-95% acceptance rate into medical school”
i’d not pay much attention to this statistic because everyone can get into med school if they apply to a not so great med school. the real statistic should have something to do with the quality of med schools yale students are accepted to.</p>
<p>Residency directors give Northwestern med school students 4.0 out of 5.0 (schools with similar scores are Virginia, UCSD, Emory, UCLA) while for USC, it’s 3.5 out of 5.0 (schools with similar scores are Ohio State, Rochester, Boston U, Utah, and Indiana). Also, the BME program at Northwestern is highly ranked. I’d say in terms of academics and future residency outlook, Northwestern HPME is better. But if you got half-tuition or full-tuition at USC, then you probably want to pick USC.</p>
<p>Hi! Sorry for not replying earlier. I have been visiting colleges and still have more to visit.
The following are my stats…
SAT I Writing: 790, Math: 800, Verbal: 730
AP Calc AB: 5, Calc BC: 5, Bio: 5, Span Language: 5, English Lit: 4, European History: 4, Chemistry: 3
SAT II Math: 800, Biology: 730, Chemistry: 780, Spanish: 800</p>
<p>My AP scores are okay, but I’ve still done a lot of activities. I started a science club and a volunteer service club at my school and do a lot of research and some physician shadowing. </p>
<p>I’m still very confused (hence the name…yea it’s weird I know) about what to do. I just got back from visiting Yale’s Bulldog Days, and the academics and resources there are AMAZING! I don’t know if USC’s Bacc/MD program and USC as an undergraduate school would be able to give me similar resources. But also the environment at Yale is…a little arrogant and snobbish. But then again I didn’t meet everyone and I’m sure that there are great ppl there. I also don’t know if the teachers at USC are all that great, while the ones at Yale really are amazing teachers. I don’t know if I would do too well at Yale either. The kids at my school are smart but not that smart so it’s been easy to shine at high school. However, at Yale I probably would be mediocre compared to everyone else. The research at Yale also is very top notch. I don’t know how USC could compare to that. I want to do Biomedical Engineering research, and when I visited a Biomed lab at USC through a tour, it was not very good. Then again it’s hard to turn down a Bacc/MD program. Idk if Keck is that great though. I’m really not too sure.</p>
<p>Without question, it should be USC vs NW if you’re serious about medicine. With the economy the way it is right now, competition to get into medical school is only going to grow and as great as Yale is, I would not give up the guaranteed position.</p>
<p>I would personally pick USC over NW for these reasons (there are just my thoughts):</p>
<ol>
<li>more affordable especially if you have that 50% scholarship</li>
<li>better weather (NW is cold, depressingly cold)</li>
<li>like you mentioned, it’s a party environment. Part of the appeal of these guaranteed programs is that you can enjoy the college lifestyle a little bit more.</li>
<li>physician shadowing really shouldn’t impact your decision. If you are doing it to get ahead, you should realize that nothing you do in your premed years will make a difference even for highly competitive specialties.</li>
<li>Keck is still a top notch medical school. Maybe not in the same tier as NW but certainly nothing that will restrict you from pursuing competitive fields. In fact, if you’re looking to do a competitive specialty and wish to stay in California, being a USC student will help you much more than being a NW student (assuming equal stats)</li>
<li>Faculty everywhere is hit or miss. Some will be incredibly supportive and some, not so much. In the end, what type of physician you will become is more dependent on what you pour into it, not what kind of support is behind you.</li>
<li>Regarding the desire to pursue research and Honors engineering, again, very ambitious and I applaud you. Your views may change once you get to the school. I was certainly not as ambitious but it’s still very rewarding to go to your classes, pull in the minimum scores you need to move onto medical school, and just sit back and enjoy life with friends.</li>
</ol>
<p>Best of luck with your decision. (If it helps, I made the decision to pursue a combined degree program over a less prestigious Ivy League school and it has been one of the best decisions I’ve ever made. I was pushed towards this choice by some of the helpful posters here so hopefully you’ll enjoy similar success)</p>
<p>I’m currently a USC Bacc/MD student who gave up several Ivies (Yale, Columbia) for the guarantee of medical school, and I can’t figure out why I thought that the guarantee was so important. While, yes, USC is a reasonably pleasant place to be, I will never have the excitement, challenge, teaching, stimulation, and peers that I would have found at Yale or Columbia. The students who are accepted into the Bacc/MD program are the kinds of students who will get into medical school anyway. Yes, you have a bit less pressure, but seriously consider what you are giving up. I came so close to going to Yale, and I’m afraid that I succumbed to my familys influence regarding the guarantee and I really seriously regret it. You only have one college experience, and believe me, if you want to go to medical school, you will be able to do it the traditional way and come out as a more interesting person having experienced four years of the ultimate education. I have several friends at Yale, and it is most amazing. You are obviously smart and talented—dont waste four years at a very mediocre school (USC will tell you otherwise, but seriously look at their students and teachers), Good luck.</p>
<p>I’m sorry that you’re regretting your college decision. When I visited Yale, it definitely had great opportunities. The only thing I’m worried about is that I would not be able to do that well there and get the recommendation letters that I would need to get into medical school. While the teachers there were amazing, they also seemed kind of tough and also unapproachable. When a few kids and I went after his lecture to ask him questions, he laughed at some of our questions, and I’m fairly good at science and think those questions were completely valid (especially since the teacher was talking about Vioxx, a drug that’s been banned, and when someone pointed that out to him, he said that that’s not important). Also…to be completely honest…I’m Indian, and it seemed that most of the students who do well at Yale are Caucasian…Also there was not much ethnic diversity there as I would have liked so I looked up the stats of the incoming class and it’s 68% Caucasian, 14% Asian, 9% African American, 8% Hispanic, and 1% Native American. Most of the kids that I met seemed a bit snobbish to me too. I know they must be really smart there but that doesn’t give anyone the right to be arrogant and push ppl around.
Also even though we have been able to do enough in high school to get into bs/md programs and places like Yale, that doesn’t gaurantee anything in the future since we start with a blank resume in the beginning. I know a son of a family friend who got into Stanford and the USC Bacc/MD program, went to Stanford for undergraduate, and then got rejected from Keck for medical school. He’s going to a not as good medical school know in Ohio. And ultimately I think med school is more important for finding a good residency, then fellowship, which are all more important things than undergraduate school.
Another friend of mine was valedictorian in high school, did lots of research in hs and in college at Duke, decided to turn down the USC program and UCSD’s medical scholars program, and has been rejected from all the med schools that she applied to. She’s taking one year off now. Her sister who also wants to become a doctor and is in my year is going to Brown’s PLME even though she got into Harvard since she does not want to go through the same thing.
So…I guess I’m still a little scared to turn down a gaurantee program, either USC’s or Northwestern’s, since while USC might not be the greatest undergraduate experience compared to Yale, not getting into medical school would be an even bigger regret. I really don’t want to go to some medical school in the Caribbean, Mexico, or even an unknown school in Ohio for example after college, and a gaurantee program can save me from worrying about that. Then again I know that I want to learn a lot at college, and Idk if USC could do that for me…
Idk…I guess I just rambled a lot here…</p>
<p>Believe me, I understand how difficult this decision is because all the same things were going through my mind just a few years ago. All of your choices are good ones, so it wont be the end of the world whatever you decide to do. What I didnt have in my equation was Northwestern. Although the weather is not as good as California, maybe that would be a compromise because Ive heard the undergraduate education is better than at USC and Northwestern Feinberg medical school is much higher ranked than Keck. BTW, I am Indian too and I must tell you that I have found in college it doesnt seem to be an issue. My closest friends at USC are Caucasian, and I think probably the majority of the school is Caucasian although I dont know the stats. College kids tend to be more open minded and I cant imagine it being a problem at Yale either. One of my friends at Yale is Indian, another one is black, and neither one of them has experienced any discrimination issues and have friends from all backgrounds. Its not like being in a small town somewhere where you are different and not accepted. In terms of the ranking of the medical school that you will ultimately get into if you dont go the combined route, I can assure you from speaking with many MDs that it doesnt matter if your school was 15th or 61st. Getting the training program you want has more to do with rotating where you want to be as a 3rd or 4th year medical student and you as an individual impressing the program than the ranking of the medical school. And I still firmly believe that you will be a much more interesting and impressive person if you have 4 years of undergraduate education at a place where you can thrive and grow. If you make the effort, I have no doubt that you can develop close relationships with professors who will write your recommendations for medical school. You may or may not get into the top medical school, but ultimately it doesnt really matter. You will get into an American medical school, and having the engineering focus as an undergrad makes you different and more interesting than the average applicant. We have a family friend whose son in fact is graduating Duke this year as a biomedical engineer and applied to medical schools. He applied to 20 schools and was accepted by 7 of them including Johns Hopkins where is going to attend. His grades and MCATs were probably around the average for the applicants of those schools, but he pursued what he really loved in college and his passion came through which made him different. He spent a summer working on a special project at a biomedical engineering firm where he contributed greatly and they wrote him an amazing recommendation. It does work out. Decide what feels right to you. Your impressions of USC I can tell you are accurate. Check out Northwestern and then consider Yale. Best of luck.</p>
<p>Still confused,
One more thing—you had mentioned proximity to the medical school for physician shadowing. USC’s medical school is 20 minutes (without traffic), 40 minutes (with traffic) from the undergrad campus so it too is somewhat of a hassle. There is a shuttle bus from the undergrad campus to the medical center, but you have to allow more time to catch the shuttle and it winds up being at least an hour everytime I have taken it. I know that Northwestern has the same type of shuttle system from the undergrad to the medical school campus ( because I interviewed there and took the shuttle). So the shuttle issue is very similar at both schools. That shouldn’t be a factor.</p>
<p>Shuda:
Thanks! That’s really helpful, especially about the shuttle system to Keck (and Feinberg). I have one more question. Are you also an engineering major then? Because I’m trying to compare the engineering programs of all the schools. Yale seems to definitely offer a lot in many fields, but I didn’t find anything exceptional about their Biomedical Engineering program. USC’s seemed to be good when I visited but when they gave us a tour, they showed us a lab with no-very-impressive research. And the staff member who represented them was not as impressive as Yale’s either…Idk if he was a teacher or not though and unfortunately I don’t remember his name. So I guess my ? is…Is USC’s engineering still good then? In research and in classes? I’m going to compare their engineering program to Northwestern’s since I’m visiting Northwestern tomorrow. Thanks.</p>
<p>I’m not an engineering major, but one of my roomates is. The impression we have of engineering at USC is that it is popular not because of great qualilty teaching or research, but because Southern California is home to many aerospace companies and jobs are available upon graduation. My roomie says that the research opportunities are very variable and he has experienced a great amount of frustration finding faculty member support.</p>
<p>Shuda:
I have one more question. In the interview process, Dr. Quinn gave a speech during lunch. Is she helpful? I remember someone mentioned there that the programs holds meetings with her every Friday so does she help students find research opportunities?
Thanks.</p>
<p>ONLY during the first year of the Bac/MD program do we have a Friday class. It is a 1 unit class (all other classes are 4 units). It is basically just a meet and greet, with occassional assignments designed to teach you how to listen and communicate or literature that we discuss. It is very informal. Dr. Quinn is not often there, but there usually is a guest physician. If you are looking for research opportunities, you have to seek them out on your own, usually through your departmental major. And yes, my friend is a biomedical engineering major. He thinks you should go to Yale and wishes that he had that opportunity (but he is not familiar with Northwestern). If Northwestern has engineering that is better than USC, and we already know that the undergrad school is higher ranked than USC, and Feinberg is way higher than Keck, maybe that would be your answer. Or if you can live with the non-guarantee of medical school (although I’m sure you will get in anyway), then go to Yale. You will only have the opportunity of an Ivy League education ((undergrad) once in your life, so go for it. Hope your visit at Northwestern gave your more insight. If it were me knowing what I know now, I would go to #1 Yale. If I really couldn’t live without the guarantee (examine your reasons closely), I would go to #2 Northwestern. And I would have USC as #3. Hope I’ve helped you. Good luck.</p>
<p>hi! im actually going through a very similar situation right now. I am currently debating between Northwestern HPME, MIT, and Duke. I am leaning towards HPME because of the med school guarantee. Feinberg is definitely a great medical school, but it seems kinda difficult to pass up on MIT and Duke as well. I feel that if i did go to MIT, I would eventually make my way to a good medical school as well–it just seems like the much more difficult route. Do you guys have any thoughts on this?</p>
The med school placement rate (%) at MIT is in the 70s. That means a quarter of them don’t get into <em>any</em> med school, let med schools as highly ranked as Feinberg. The majority of premeds even from HYPMS don’t get into top-20 med schools. That’s the kind of risk you are looking at.</p>
<p>Now that this old thread has been revived, let me add a couple of thoughts. Each of the undergrad schools that tootifrooti mentioned are awesome in their own right. Each probably have a healthy proportion of their pre-meds who intend to matriculate to a med school eventually get into a good med school. That path to med school, however, does require you to “shape” your undergrad years to be a viable and competitive med school candidate, meaning you need to do volunteer work, research, shadowing, take specific curricula, etc. that you already did to be a competitive HPME candidate. Can you get to a good med school through the normal route - sure, if you are so inclined and do not waiver from your original goal. Are you willing to to go through the process all over again - only you can answer. There is something to be said about the guarantee (and safety) of having a place held for you at Feinberg in that it will allow you to explore and experience subjects and activities as a Northwestern undergrad that perhaps you would not consider if you were busy “shaping” your undergrad experience to be a viable med school candidate. Good luck to you as you reach your decision in the coming days - you have some great alternatives to chose from!</p>
<p>thank you for all the advice guys! i narrowed down my choices to MIT and HPME, and visited MIT and northwestern. i have to say, before i visited mit i thought it would be the stereotypical nerdy place but once i went there, i saw that the students at MIT are VERY varied and i actually rlly liked the atmosphere there. MIT has a very distinct culture and the students there are so enthusiastic about their school! i did not like the atmosphere at northwestern as much; however, I dont think i should judge northwestern based on the few people that i met during my visit. </p>
<p>I am actually having second thoughts on medicine as well, but I still feel that I should take HPME. having the med school guarantee will allow me to explore other interests and even career options during my undergrad years, and if i decide that medicine is not for me, I could possibly drop out of HPME (although hardly anyone ever does that). If i went to MIT, I would still enter wanting to be a pre-med, and would have to tailor my undergrad years to package myself to a med school (so I wouldnt get the opportunity to explore other options).</p>
<p>One more thought: even if I go through HPME and decide that I want to be a doctor, I think I should apply to Baylor College of Medicine either way. From what I know (I may be wrong), Baylor and Feinberg have similar rankings, but as a Texas resident, the tuition at Baylor would be around $6,500 for me, while Feinberg would be around $50,000. So if I took HPME, I would still be applying out (but my admission at Feinberg would still be saved, and that seems like a really good safety net). </p>